Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Green Cloud]

Nice quote.

[MasterKiller]

It's easy to look good when your Kwan Dao weights 3 lbs.

[Judge Pen]

It also looked like you were leaning forward too much (Instead of over your leg)when you were trying to get low. Oh and your hand is suppose to come up to block the head not fly out like that.

SHC, thanks for sharing the link to that set. And since you were asking about that particular technique. . . .

I was leaning forward. I was taught that you leaned forward to allow the weight of the kwan dao to roll under the arm and the butt end to rest on the shoulder while the blade does a vertical cut up. And I was taught for the hand to strike out as a sort of counter-balance to the weapon so, in an ideal world with a good performer of the set, the kwan dao and the hand on in a straight line parallel with the floor.

While I certainly lack that certain something on performance, I don't think I was necessarily "zombie-ing" through it, but hey, I never professed to be a good forms person. Maybe I can make that a niche: Zombie Kwan dao.

But you're right, my cuts were sloppy at times. I chalk it up to nerves on top of an average forms person (at best). The point was to show one of the older SD forms and demonstrate that the way I was originally taught showed CMA technique rather than JMA.

[Golden Tiger]

It's easy to look good when your Kwan Dao weights 3 lbs.

I wasn't gonna say it but figured someone would. And of course I realize that she was using it for a demo but the blade would sag even when she wasn't moving. Nice performance though.

JP, mail if you haven't already checked. circa 1990

[Judge Pen]

Thanks GT.

[lxtruong]

It's easy to look good when your Kwan Dao weights 3 lbs.

I would love to see that form done with a heavier kwan dao. Even something like 8lbs. The one handed moves, and the one where she flipped it, hilarity would ensue. Whew!

[Judge Pen]

I don't know about that, but it would have had a different dynamic about it. I thought it was a nice form. She had great focus and excellent footwork. She's prettier than me too.

[PangQuan]

some what similar to our kwan dao form. yet that one is much shorter.

id like to see someone wield a dao that is weighs as much as the supposed original 80 or 90 lbs.

[Vash]

****, that San Jian form suxord . . .



Seriously though, looks much better than my weapons forms. Good work.

[godzillakungfu]

some what similar to our kwan dao form. yet that one is much shorter.

id like to see someone wield a dao that is weighs as much as the supposed original 80 or 90 lbs.

We had some that were close to 15lbs. The whole dynamic of the form changed. It was kind of funny watching someone use it for testing instead of training.

I was the nice guy and would say use a lighter one. No to proud until, they nicked the wall ot cut the carpet. Which, eventually gave birth to parking lot training at my old school.

[ironmantis3]

I personally thought JP's form was kinda cool. I like how it repeated some things in every direction. As far as the form goes, I don't see anything that would make it not a CMA kuen, I know that was one debate. All the techs are in pretty much any of the chinese heavy polearm type weapon kuen that I know of. There is a couple things which I noticed about his kuen that differenciate it from all the Guan Dao kuen I have seen, but I only been doing kung fu for about 7 years and the past 3 have been in Japan w/o teacher so I'm a noob, especially with guan dao.

The only thing I noticed was that it didn't really have much for use of the spike end of the weapon. There was the sequence that you had the 4-6 thrusts alternating between blade and spike ends but that was all I saw. From the guan dao kuen I have seen in past there is more with the spike. For example stabbing down as to attack the foot or leg then changing swing to cut down the now immobile enemy. Things like that.

The other thing was that most guan dao kuen I have witnessed have had some sort of tech utilizing the serrated sorta spike back side of the blade in a jam or disarm of some sort. You kuen had some sweeping clear type motions but it didn't from what I could see utilize the unique back edge of the guan dao.

Like I said though I'm a noob so I might just not know what I'm talking about. I think it had some cool moves in JP's kuen though. I see no reason it is not CMA. Also maybe it was or was not originally intended for Guan Dao, I know that was another thing mentioned. I know all those techs are in my 9-rings long sword form. Originally doesn't really matter because it seems that traditionally practitioners often interchange the heavy bladed pole weapons in kuen. Like using a 9-rings long sword, guan dao, spring/autumn sword interchangebly on forms for any of those weapons. I know I have done that myself with that and also spear/staff etc.

As to the 80 lbs guan dao, I don't think you could effectively employ that type of weapon with techs outlined in kuen. If you think about it, the weapon wasn't originally designed for ground combat. If it was really that heavy it would have most likely been used from horse back. The weight combined with a sharp point would allow it to be used like a lance (thing European jousters) against cavalry. Additionally the long heavy curved blade would have made it very suited to slashing type cuts against infantry while riding past. The weilder wouldn't even really have to swing the blade, more like hang it out there and use the horse to ride through cutting guys down. So its like a really good hybrid weapon. But at that weight you would be cut down in a ground fight, especially if you ganged up on the wielder. A sword at close range would have been a likely victor in a seasoned hand. A spear would just be too fast and still doesn't suffer the range disadvantage. Which is explains why we have these much lighter variations now days of the guan dao.

[humbleman]

Hey! Someone give the thread C.P.R.!! Quckly!!!!

[wdl]

JP,

So where's the fight vid?

I'm still waiting on Hedgehodgey's video over on bullsh*to. hahaha

-Will

[wdl]

I thought dude's double daggers left a WHOLE lot to be desired.

-Will

[onyomi]

I don't care about the gis so much as the fact that CMA should be done with SHOES ON. Many of its moves are specifically designed to take advantage of this, such as the Praying Mantis pian-tui, in which you press your foot facing to the side down alongside the opponent's shin. If you're wearing shoes it can rip the skin. If you're barefoot you'll just slide down their shin and potentially injure yourself.

Also, besides being a complete mockery of Zui-quan, the girl doing the Drunken Jian form is using the Jian more like a Dao than anything else. Obviously hasn't the slightest clue how a jian would be used in actual combat.