Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[brucereiter]

I agree... evolution is nature's quality control. The strong move forward while the weak, who are unable to adapt to change, get left behind. MA should be no different... it should be a living art. I think some people spend too much time trying to replicate a time that has already past.

hello all,

i like the above statements ... it reminds me of a few things from the book secrets from the temple. (i know ... dont start ... just take it for what it is ...)


page 23
"shaolin do is the dynamic art form which evolved from a 1500 year tradition"

"shaolin do seeks to preserve the essence of an ancient art while maintaining the original idea: to defend ones self in a efficient and effective manner"

[kwaichang]

Well OK Pick then you can hire a General Surgeon to do your Brain Surgery and let the Neuro Surgeons just watch as they scramble your brain to mush. I never said I did not cross train " in the Past" but I feel to do something as well as possible takes total dedication. I tell ya what why dont you grapple for a year or two then try kicking against a good Tae Kwon Do guy your kicks will be ****zen. Wake up and do what you want. I dont care I was there when I was young too. KC

[BoulderDawg]

I agree... evolution is nature's quality control. The strong move forward while the weak, who are unable to adapt to change, get left behind. MA should be no different... it should be a living art. I think some people spend too much time trying to replicate a time that has already past. Look at all the great information that is at our fingertips now with the internet, books, and the ability to travel all over the world.

I study Shaolin-Do and I'm proud to say it. At my school there are no politics, no mystical BS, it stinks like sweat, and a lot of hard work goes on there. We openly discuss techniques and application on a regular basis and do not shy away ANY knowledge. It's a great school!

Good Post!

Look at old movies from 70-80 years ago of people playing golf, tennis, boxing....whatever. Does it look like the same activity as today? No. And the same is true in the martial arts. We are constanly changing and evolving.

I mean don't you think that if the old masters had access to things like video tape, internet, whatever a 1,000 years ago they would have used it?

[unkokusai]

Good Post!

Look at old movies from 70-80 years ago of people playing golf, tennis, boxing....whatever. Does it look like the same activity as today?

Holy crap! Is this KOTF?

[humbleman]

This thread is corny. I hope it will be deleted soon.

a tale of a fateful trip... Captain Bly and Gilligan + various assorted castaways. (wasn't there a band by that name?...) Anyway, Gilligan became disgruntled as Captain Bly refused to teach Gilligan what he needed to know to become a crusty old salt. As is the habit of many crusty old salts who feel that "I got mine, ***** you. Anyway, Gilligan and the castaways got tired of this, and set Captain Bly adrift in a rowboat. Wait, no, they tied him to an iceberg. As the iceberg drifted south, Captain Bly became a Polliwog. In the warmer waters, the iceberg melted and Captain Bly then had to learn something himself-how to swim and avoid sharks.

[humbleman]

Anyway, Captain Bly eventually made it to an island, which he named Clench, after his old first mate. And it was then that Captain Bly made a remarkable discovery. He found that all that swimming had given him the ability to bust coconuts with his bare hands. Which also provided him with sustanance. He decided, with little else to do, that he would dedicate his life to the art of busting coconuts bare handed.

[humbleman]

and Captain Blys skills with coconut busting became an obsession. His only focus became busting coconuts, and was so intense that he failed to notice the many ships that passed by. His sense of isolation grew to the point that in the later years, he became something of a joke to passing ships and boats. They used to come close to shore as he awoke at sunrise for another coconut busting session and would hail him on the bullhorn, "hey, Bly! Are you nuts, or what?" But our good captain didn't even hear him, such was his dedication to perfecting the new art of Coconut-Tao. They say if you pass Clench on the night of a full moon, to this day, you can still hear the sharp sound of coconuts cracking...

[BentMonk]

I agree... evolution is nature's quality control. The strong move forward while the weak, who are unable to adapt to change, get left behind. MA should be no different... it should be a living art. I think some people spend too much time trying to replicate a time that has already past. Look at all the great information that is at our fingertips now with the internet, books, and the ability to travel all over the world.

I study Shaolin-Do and I'm proud to say it. At my school there are no politics, no mystical BS, it stinks like sweat, and a lot of hard work goes on there. We openly discuss techniques and application on a regular basis and do not shy away ANY knowledge. It's a great school!

True. Good post man.

[kwaichang]

Then one day a ship wrecked and they didnt have any food so Capt Bly had to save them from themselves and break coconuts so they could eat and not starve. None of the passangers could, so they asked Capt Bly to teach them because they knew deep down that if they didnt learn they would die and they had to dedicate themselves to do it so as not to die . But those who did not dedicate them selves did die. KC

[Learn]

I'm not interested in ****ing contests. I could say that the filipino style I have been studying is the most realistic combatic style I have ever studied, and I do believe that, but that would not contribute to this discussion. There's always another. Training hour discussion aside, I am interested in discussing SD. The Judge had an excellent post about this. Correct me if I am wrong, but it was essentially that SD students are exposed to much, and then left to more specialized study with teachers of a particular system. I spent several years in SD and was not taught that way. I tested several times under ST. I was never encouraged to train with a dedicated Mantiss teacher, though I did. And I learned that what I learned in SD was way off base with regard to Mantiss. As I said, SD did very good things for me, but I now have questions about the learn forms from every style approach. I recently watched a video of forms I did, and while they may have been acceptable for belt testing, from what I know of real weapons usage, I learned nothing. It's difficult for me because SD training was such a positive in my life.

[kwaichang]

Thank you for your honesty. You seem disapointed that the Mantis you learned in SD was not what you were taught else where . I too studied Tang Lang For 10 years prior to SD it was different but I do not believe that Sd's Mantis is not real as i gained alot from both. I do not know what you learned but perhaps it is useful in another way. Although it is different it could still be "real " Mantis. Many think or seem to think that just because it doesnt look like what we expect it to look like it cant be real. Also because SD has so much it cant be real. However, There is no validity in that concept.
The arts have changed so much, especially Shaolin arts, that to say that something doesnt look the same as another is no way to validate or discredit a style or art. Many try though. Also the source of power what ever the name given is based upon mathematics Physics and bio mechanics primarily. Many have said that "SD Chen Tai Chi" is not real Chen because it "does not follow the "known current " concepts of Chen. again I say so what does anyone think the Chen of today looks anything like the original Chen Tai Chi. Maybe a little but not exactly so that kills that idea. I could go on but I feel if you read many of the posts here you will see many IDEAS of what people THINK. But do not know for sure. KC

[Golden Tiger]

Correct me if I am wrong, but it was essentially that SD students are exposed to much, and then left to more specialized study with teachers of a particular system. I spent several years in SD and was not taught that way. I tested several times under ST. I was never encouraged to train with a dedicated Mantiss teacher, though I did. And I learned that what I learned in SD was way off base with regard to Mantiss.

Excellent post Learn. I am not sure which JP post you are refering to(he has so many excellent ones ) but I think that just about all the long time students specialize to some extent once they get a few forms in the choosen style that they like. And if they feel their knowledge is lacking, they will seek out more and more information. Thats perfectly logical.

One statement you made, which is made by many but you seem willing to actually discuss it, was that what you learned of Mantis in SD was "off base" with regard to Mantis. If you wouldn't mind, and have the time, could you explain this a little better? We constantly here that SD(fill in the blank) is not real (fill in the blank) but hardly ever get much more than that. I for one, am interested in your take on the difference.

Also, I will agree with you that the weapons forms are not taught as well as they should be and in a r/l situation, not very effective. Then again, unless we start teaching tactical handgun training, I doubt that any thing would be..

[Flying-Monkey]

The drunken sword I watched showed little understanding of the sword. Especially, There is a lack of understanding in the wrist.

[Flying-Monkey]

The same goes for the spear vs broadsword.

The woman with the broadsword started with the sword in the right hand.
She showed a lack of understanding of proper attacks and defenses.
Her left hand movement was wrong.

The man with spear was the same.

He showed a lack of understanding of the weapon all together.
His attacks and defenses were non-sense.

There was a website with more forms. There were styles on that site that I didn't know, but i can easy see that they were wrong.

If a guy says he does wing chun and starts doing a bunch of jump spinning kicks and long swinging CLF punches. (he is not doing wing chun)

[Golden Tiger]

The drunken sword I watched showed little understanding of the sword. Especially, There is a lack of understanding in the wrist.

How so?

The woman with the broadsword started with the sword in the right hand.

I haven't seen the vid in question but of the forms I know, all but one start in the left hand. In the sword vs. spear, there is an opening, then a pause, then the meat of the form. Perhaps the vid started after the pause.

Her left hand movement was wrong.

How so?

The man with spear was the same.

He showed a lack of understanding of the weapon all together.
His attacks and defenses were non-sense.

How so?

There was a website with move forms. There were styles on that site that I didn't know, but i can easy see that they were wrong.

Sorry, but I don't understand this statement.. Whats a "move forms"? Also, can you easily explain why they were wrong?


And thinks in advance for your opinion FM