Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[kwaichang]

Do you have a copy of the 64 rules of PaKua /? Form stems from the rules and they were not exhibited even with the base , stepping. KC

[Erasmus Mingatt]

"do you have a video example of how you feel pakua should look? "

I realize you didn't address this ? to me..but I thought I may take the initiative a little since in 8 step preying mantis...monkey kung fu footwork you would see in a style such as 7 star preying mantis was replaced with Ba Gua/Hsing-I footwork.(I am still learning so I'll admit..I'm not sure if it was REPLACED with BG/HS-I or if BG-HS-I footwork was ADDED to it). I'll ask sifu.

Anyways..

My sifu made the analogy that the circles in all 3 arts look different but ultimately reach the same goal.

BA GUA--think of a circle.. placed on the ground. Think of someone putting a sombrero(mexican hat) flat on the ground and walking around the circumference. In this..one learns the 8 directions of fighting.

Hsing-I/Shing-Yi-- think of a circle but instead thinking of moving circular but forward..such as if one were mimicking the circle of a bicycle tire moving round and round or a car tire moving circular but forward.

Tai Chi Chuan--think of the electrons/protons(I always get them confused) of an atom cirulating all around the orbit of an atoms in multiple directions at once.

This is not the best analogy..but it's the only one I can think of for now...

[brucereiter]

Do you have a copy of the 64 rules of PaKua /? Form stems from the rules and they were not exhibited even with the base , stepping. KC

hi kc,

yes i do have jiang rong qiao's rules as translated and organized by gm sin the'.

i disagree with your observation that they were "not" exhibited. as many of the concepts were to a certain extent displayed. remember i am a student and am not claiming to do things perfectly or to have a perfect understanding but i do exhibit some of the shen fa (body method) as advised but the "64 rules".

i understand you may have a bias against my teacher/school based on many post from you over the years, there is no need for that i am just one student who is sharing what he understands. take it for what it is or leave it.

can or will you show me how you express the "64 rules" with your form? if you can not i would think you are not in a place to tell me in the absolute terms you used what i am doing or not doing with my form.

best,

bruce

p.s. i am trying to build unity between all of our schools.

[kwaichang]

Form like a Dragon
Expression of a Monkey
Sit like a Tiger
Flip like an Eagle

When stepping forward do not raise them too high do it like you are dragging them in the Mud The center or heart of the foot must be hollow toes and heel must hit at the same time. Just a few of the rules not exhibited. KC

[Chain Whip]

KC

I'm guessing this means you won't be posting a video of your Pa Kua - what a surprise!!

[brucereiter]

Form like a Dragon
Expression of a Monkey
Sit like a Tiger
Flip like an Eagle

When stepping forward do not raise them too high do it like you are dragging them in the Mud The center or heart of the foot must be hollow toes and heel must hit at the same time. Just a few of the rules not exhibited. KC

hi kc,

these are all valid things to pay attention to when practicing pakua.
i think i am doing these things as i said to a certain point.

the way you are making it seem with your comments is that you think i am on the wrong track with my practice. i guess you will not understand unless you can feel what i am doing. i hope we can meet and exchange ideas in the near future. which school do you go to?

there are several ways to walk what is shown in my clip is not mud stepping it is heal toe stepping.

do you have or will you make a video to demonstrate what you are saying is lacking in my practice? i am open for advice but i think you are not giving advice you may be sharing your bias.

like i said, i would like to help all of the schools/students communicate better and share information. we are all students and will always no matter how skilled we become be able to learn more and refine what we already know.

best,

bruce

[tattooedmonk]

hi kc,

these are all valid things to pay attention to when practicing pakua.
i think i am doing these things as i said to a certain point.

the way you are making it seem with your comments is that you think i am on the wrong track with my practice. i guess you will not understand unless you can feel what i am doing. i hope we can meet and exchange ideas in the near future. which school do you go to?

there are several ways to walk what is shown in my clip is not mud stepping it is heal toe stepping.

do you have or will you make a video to demonstrate what you are saying is lacking in my practice? i am open for advice but i think you are not giving advice you may be sharing your bias.

like i said, i would like to help all of the schools/students communicate better and share information. we are all students and will always no matter how skilled we become be able to learn more and refine what we already know.

best,

bruce

You can still do heel /toe stepping but you should be doing the mud stepping as well. The rear foot should graze the inside of the front calf as you are stepping forward,( you should be scraping mud off of your rear foot as it passes the calf),( you need to actually touch the calf ), once you place it back down you plant with your heel then with your toe.

reverse if you are stepping backwards.

alot of people think that you should be placing both the heel and toe down at the same time but this will look and feel like you are stomping . It only appears to be landing at the same time. You are still going heel to toe it is just very subtle and unnoticable to the untrained eye.

[kwaichang]

I do not have a vid I will be glad to W/O with you guys though. None the less the rules do not say heel toe it says at the same time. I did not write the rules etc. I am sorry you feel I am bias but I am if the rules as I read them are not followed I dont care who the individual is. The form is of M Grooms and unless that is you I dont feel you should take my comments personally. KC PS if you raise the foot to the height of the calf perhaps that is too high , and in that case it would look like stomping try it ankle height instead. The rules say through the mud not over the mud. KC

[kwaichang]

I will show you what I think and the rules , my vid would not exhibit perfect form of the rules and would misrepresent what I am trying to convey through the rules with form. I am not perfect in form only am trying to get closer to the ideal. KC

[Baqualin]

First thanks to Bruce and everyone reaching out from all the schools, that's what it's all about.....we should learn from each other...bottom line... we all have the same teacher GMS

OK, Classical Pakua is very flowing like Tai Chi...never stops or hesitates...strikes are not accented, they flow in the form like water (not in application, just in the form)....stepping is also flowing, kinda like KC said through the mud...by doing this you can place toe & heel at the same time...gliding.....& your pants should brush between the ankle and calf, any higher and you look like your hopping (which is very common with most SD people). You should also see in the form what your attacking, what your attacking with, what your locking up or breaking and so forth.
BQ

Keep in mind That we're talking about Classical only.

[tattooedmonk]

I do not have a vid I will be glad to W/O with you guys though. None the less the rules do not say heel toe it says at the same time. I did not write the rules etc. I am sorry you feel I am bias but I am if the rules as I read them are not followed I dont care who the individual is. The form is of M Grooms and unless that is you I dont feel you should take my comments personally. KC PS if you raise the foot to the height of the calf perhaps that is too high , and in that case it would look like stomping try it ankle height instead. The rules say through the mud not over the mud. KC

I was taught more or less the same thing, but following the rules I have found that brushing the arch of the foot along the lower part of the calf is along the line of the rules as the are printed in many publications( including the CSC manual), to create a proper distance between each step. Like I said it has the appearence and the feel of placing it down at one time. It is almost silmutanious, meaning that the heel to toe stepping is more exagerated in Tai Ji quan than in Ba Gua Zhang.


Another reason I say this is becuase if you are walking through mud you have to clean off you shoes as you go so they do not bog you down , which wil eventually happen. and the only way to do this is by taking it out of the mud slightly to scrape it off. I think sometime the rules are taken too literally and other times not enough, if at all .

If you were walking through the mud you would eventually get bogged down and not beable to move because of all the mud right??

I am just thinking realistically that is all.

This is how the weight is distributed evenly from the back leg to the front . It is ever so slight . This also follows proper body mechanics, and use of the kinetic chain from hips, upper legs , knees, lower legs , ankles, and feet.

The heel to to toe thing happens so close to the ground I would say that you almost do place it down at the same time.

I feel this is where the two arts over lap.

Just my experience . Not to say either one is wrong or right , just different , we are SD brothers.

I say split the difference.

[JonathanD]

I know Master Grooms is quite knowledgeable in the arts( in general ), however, I heard recently that he got the idea in his head that he was the foremost authority on internal in SD.

I heard that exact same thing. Quite a bold statement if you ask me.

[JonathanD]

Do you have a copy of the 64 rules of PaKua /? Form stems from the rules and they were not exhibited even with the base , stepping. KC

I do, and it's an intense read.

[Chain Whip]

First thanks to Bruce and everyone reaching out from all the schools, that's what it's all about.....we should learn from each other...bottom line... we all have the same teacher GMS

Might be the best thing any SD person has said on this forum.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Nope. Not even close. Here's the best posts (not SD people, though):

just remember to shave your runway!

You coming in for a landing?