Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Dark Knight]

The greatest fighters don't necessarily make the greatest teachers.

Exactly

[oldmonkey]

So what have we learned so far, kids?

Gene wants to mess with our colons and MK is too pretty to get drafted...?

The SD teachers I know are exceptional martial artists.

[Wharg0ul]

Originally posted by oldmonkey
The SD teachers I know are exceptional martial artists.

Ditto, here in Colorado.

[GeneChing]

...don't bring my colon messing into your Shaolin Do debates. That has nothing to do with it. Or if it does, I really don't want to know and recant my colon messing comment.

[serene_dragon]

My thoughts on instructors- It all depends on individuals, experience is allways a plus, for new students (who are serious about martial arts) it would be recomended to check the history and if the instructor are still affiliated with his or her system. Also is the instructor someone is is still trying to further his or her abilities and knowledge of martial arts.

A 1st black can be a good instructor for beginners if he or she is continueing on but for someone who does jump from system to system after reaching black belt and has experience in many different styles then you would be better off finding a more experienced instructor.

For those who jump around from system to system you will never truely get the best that each one has to offer (with the exception of those styles that when you reach black belt they tell you to go learn a different one)
I know that I dont teach this kind of martial artist the best that my style has to offer. And I dont believe other serious martial artist do either.

[serene_dragon]

Cho said this is not a Shaolin subject

So he does comment on a Shaolin topic even if it is in a way to put Shaolin down.

He refers to the hairy guy who mastered all of Shaolin. And he wanders why he doesnt have more stories told about him doing amazing things.

My thoughts would be for someone to master all of Shaolin, then he had to put a lifetime of training and practice into it. I doubt he had alot of spare time and I doubt that he went out looking for trouble or even went out much at all because of his appearance. And for someone who didnt show off his abilities or be made to display them on another person in defense or any other reason then he should be admired not questioned.

[Starchaser107]

[Fred Sanford]

My thoughts would be for someone to master all of Shaolin, then he had to put a lifetime of training and practice into it. I doubt he had alot of spare time and I doubt that he went out looking for trouble or even went out much at all because of his appearance. And for someone who didnt show off his abilities or be made to display them on another person in defense or any other reason then he should be admired not questioned.

sure that explains it.

Are you going to tell us about Sin The's movie too???

[cerebus]

That seems to be the problem. The whole "Let's just admire him, not question him" attitude. Let's not have any concern for the truth. Just stop thinking and do as you're told.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by cerebus
That seems to be the problem. The whole "Let's just admire him, not question him" attitude. Let's not have any concern for the truth. Just stop thinking and do as you're told.

It is a problem (and not just in SD, but certainly we are a prime example). I can't explain everything about our history and lineage. I don't try to. . . . I worry about the efficacy of the art, how well my teachers teach, how well I learn and apply what I know, and if I can use it in a pinch. That's why I still train in SD. Not because I can find independent sources to verify Ie Chang Ming or Su Kong Tai Jin, but because I have good martial artists as my teachers. But I do question things and consider all the counter-points. Just because they don't "change my mind" and convince me to train exclusively elsewhere doesn’t mean I don't question and think for myself.

But part of the problem is that some students can't do that, get on these forums citing the party lines without autonomous thought, and eventually they recess deeper into their hole or their world comes crashing down around them. A little free thought never hurt anyone.

[Radhnoti]

Well said JP.

However, I would agree with the criticism that certain higher-ups in SD don't (in my opinion) want anything short of blind obedience. You just happen to be in an area of the SD political world where that's not AS MUCH of an issue.

I also doubt this is an issue exclusive to SD...in fact it could (and has) been argued that this is quite common in traditional CMA styles.

[Ralphie]

imo, the problem with SD is not uncommon in any other so called martial arts program/style. At the core, they lack any real method to teach skill; weather it's skill in fighting or performing. Even with this lack of methodology, there's still insane claims of deadly techniques and otherworldy powers. To its credit, Kung Fu has developed venues that test both performance and fighting skill. The schools that do not engage in these things, usually do so out of fear of being fraudulant. While they insulate themselves with ill founded thoughts like the old "what is taught here is to deadly for the ring", the reality of it is they have developed cult-like adherence to a bunk credo. It pays better to brand yourself outside of public competition. It is also easier to talk up your credentials than to prove them to a discerning audience.

One of the many negative things that comes out of these types of isolated groups, beyond being bilked out of your money, is that if you have a stated goal, that type of venue does not support it. Your essentially taking a shot in the dark in hopes that you hit your target. Of course, unless, your goal is to congregate with people who like to regurgatate familiar BS stories about people they don't know, and maybe workout a little bit.

I know, this story is about other people, or sub-groups in your organization. No way could this mirror your experience, because your sifu has been studying for 30 years under Grandmaster Gobblygook, who is of the heir to the shao lin throne. I don't know, i guess it's up to you to think critically about these things...

[Judge Pen]

Ralphie, did you mean to say that the problem with SD is not common in any other martial arts program/style? I think that's what you were trying to say.

And we can only speak from our own experience. No more and no less. I am, however, always willing to work out with other groups. I don't isolate myself.

[Ralphie]

Actually, I was saying it is not uncommon (unfortunately). What I left out was "many" so called...instead of "any". IMO, it is turning the other way, but still too much isolationism/cult behavior in many martial arts circles. I was trying to make it not just a Shao lin Do thing, but a problem that exists in general.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Judge Pen
And we can only speak from our own experience. No more and no less. I am, however, always willing to work out with other groups. I don't isolate myself.

True...but at the same time, I have yet to see an SD'er at Taiji Legacy. It's the biggest traditional tournament in the Southwest, and there are plenty of SD schools in TX or LA that could represent. Hell, there are people from Mexico City, South Africa, China, England, etc... but no one from the Dallas SD schools can make it? Ever?