Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts!
Unlock IS-Dfr. Let all the S-D threads stand independently.
Keep IS-Dfr locked down. All IS-Dfr posters deserved to be punished.
Delete them all. Let Yama sort them out.
You have got it backwards.
After it is demonstrated that all the xing yi, bagua, taichi, hua, tiger crane, 5 animals etc was all lifted from books and videos you guys would still be making desperate convoluted justifications.
Not all of us who defend or practice SD are attempting to make "desperate convoluted justifications" as you say. Speaking for myself, I'm simply taking the information as it comes in and trying to fit it to some picture of what the reality is/was.
Most of what's come out thus far doesn't really give a great picture of what did or did not happen. How does anybody other than GMS really know where the material he taught came from? Hsiang The would be a good resource but I don't have any contact with him or his students. Even information from the GMS deposition seems to be contradictory.
GMS's position in the deposition is: He created most of the material up through 1st black, thus his copyright has merit. They specifically mention 1-30 short kata, 1-20 sparring techniques, bird forms, 4-Way Door Break, and Flying Tiger. I can find the references if needed. He also states that the content of the longer katas were created by him but the names were based on katas taught at the temple (with a few exceptions like Performing Dove).
Without seeing what's on the tape, I think it's safe to assume most of the other material up through 1st/2nd black was also on the tape.
From this there comes a number of conflicting things (most of which you mentioned):
1) How does Hsiang The also know/teach the bird forms? He apparently produced notes showing his knowledge of these from the court case in Kentucky. At that time his notes were used to prove GMS did NOT make up these forms but were in fact taught to both of them from GM Ie.
2) What about all of the other material above 1st/2nd black? It's entirely possible this material was learned from GM Ie. Whether this means it comes from the temple is nearly impossible to verify since he and GM Tai Djinn are dead. With little independent verification of GM Tai Djinn's existence, the best we have is 2nd/3rd hand hearsay. And the material GMS "majored" in is beyond 1st/2nd black.
3) Why and how does GMS produce detailed notes for each of the materials that include the Chinese characters, training, etc.? If he made up all of this, that is a pretty impressive feat. Also, most of the old-timers have said these things were taught in the early 60s and 70s. So if GMS thought he was pulling a fast one over on all the "uneducated" masses, why go to the bother of creating such detailed movement names and training in both English and Chinese?
4) How is it that during the 1992 trip to Bandung, the White Lotus Society demonstrated a number of the lower-belt materials supposedly created by GMS? Did he create this back during his time in Indonesia?
I'm sorry, you obviously have me mistaken for someone who actually gives a shit. I never meant to imply that I was actually going to do it, I just bet it is possible.
I asked for desperate and convoluted justifications and you eagerly provided. Thank you.
If you find a stolen car in SD's garage (5 Animals), it's safe to assume there's more stolen goods inside.
The weakest of all weak things is a virtue that has not been tested in the fire.
~ Mark Twain
Everyone has a plan until they’ve been hit.
~ Joe Lewis
A warrior may choose pacifism; others are condemned to it.
~ Author unknown
"You don't feel lonely.Because you have a lively monkey"
"Ninja can HURT the Spartan, but the Spartan can KILL the Ninja"
I do believe there is the assumption of guilt , but guilt has to be proven. If a form is given into public domain or a book then it is not stolen. One cant copywrite a form or a hook shot in basket ball from what i understand. But JP could present thiis as true or not. You guys remind me of people who hate Abortion and are pro Death penalty. Wishy washy w/o direction. KC
A Fool is Born every Day !
You mistake Honor for Law and often they dont coincide. So if it is in a book and you learn it you can use it to make money much like computer books and school etc. KC
A Fool is Born every Day !
in most courts of law yes. but as far as public opinion and consumption goes, thats not the case. we can assume he is guilty and form our opinions of him based on that assumption if we want to.
besides its a pretty well educated guess. if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and tastes like a roasted duck...
For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.
No I dont agree with what was done in court, and think there are some discrepancies there , But as far as teaching a form from a tape or book I feel that is OK. as long as lies dont coincide with it. It is the Lying I dont like. I like spreading The arts though. I know many who have lied who on here have never lied or borrowed a technique here and there. W/O giving credit. You all seem to forget we all fall short. KC Master Po said "who among us are without Flaw? " KC
A Fool is Born every Day !
No I am not Jake? dont know him, I am like you trying to get back in shape after a bad injury . and lose weight as well. But what do you mean mess with the wrong people????????????????????????. Just wondering KC
A Fool is Born every Day !
ah the good ol days lol
For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.
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Since you ignored my question it's safe to say that you didn't see the Indonesian videos and are talking out your ass. Cool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSqQ...=results_video
This is the video that prompted Sal's quote. No show me the book or video where it was stolen from......