Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[tattooedmonk]

By that, you mean wrong manic episode?

What I mean is you chose to take my post and single out something that didn't contribute to the topic of conversation, so what gives!? U have issue with me for some reason!? Seems like you are the one with thin skin.

[Judge Pen]

I've seen it mentioned in this thread a couple times that SD is a blend of some kind of japanese style/karate. Just out of curiosity, what part of the system is supposedly karate or some japanese style?

I can understand being a blend of chinese and indonesian influences but where would japanese influence have come in? And, since those with a karate background have actually said it looks nothing like karate, which specific form or other thing is supposedly from karate influence?

@ brucereiter: Re: Your post a few posts back. I am planning to look through the videos and respond when I get some more time.

You can read some early articles and see that Sin The also says he studied judo. That and the Japanese trappings, gis and terminology are what I am referring too. I can't point out specific techniques that are identifiably Japanese, but it's clear that the flow and rhythm of the art is it's own.

[Lucas]

Are the gi's in shaolin-do judo gi or karate gi? the reinforced lapel, arm/elbow and knees on a judo gi make it an ideal tool for throwing for sure.

[XinKuzi]

Those videos of Sin... sinfully bad.

[Drake]

What I mean is you chose to take my post and single out something that didn't contribute to the topic of conversation, so what gives!? U have issue with me for some reason!? Seems like you are the one with thin skin.

How is me pointing out your tantrum and clearly high level of emotional sensitivity indicative of any sensitiviy of my own?

That makes no **** sense. But I'll keep playing.

[Empty_Cup]

You can read some early articles and see that Sin The also says he studied judo. That and the Japanese trappings, gis and terminology are what I am referring too. I can't point out specific techniques that are identifiably Japanese, but it's clear that the flow and rhythm of the art is it's own.

While I agree the trappings, gis, and terminology don't help the situation, it's something that's been discussed at length on this thread and has not really led to much after a lot of debate. I remember that you provided much of the counterpoints for why these aspects don't diminish the art. As far as Sin The training in judo, that falls under cross training. While he might have used his training in judo to give perspective to other techniques, that's a far weaker statement than saying, "The style he teaches is a blend of japanese styles with chinese and indonesian styles."

But I don't think your main point is to try to open up the debate again about whether SD is a blend of styles but rather to get to the heart of the marketing machine and demand proof of claims. I agree that claims should be backed up and that the burden of proof is on the person making the claim. I personally can't offer any support other than speculation because I wasn't there at the conception of SD. If this is the heart of the debate, then that's fine. I think it is and has been good discussion.

[Iron Palm]

i would love to have sin the tell us where he learned chen tai chi chuan and hsing i as it is shown in these clips. http://www.youtube.com/user/shaolind...l?feature=mhee

what do the old time shaolin do people have to say about these versions of chen tai chi chuan and hsing i? do they still claim that the reason ALL other tai chi chuan looks so different is that everyone else is doing post communist sport wushu? sin the has said he "mastered" this. what does he mean by that?

I second this inquiry. I asked a similar question many pages back: what is the official explanation for the presence of Cheng Manching's Yang Tai Chi form in the Shaolin-Do curriculum? Seeing as it was created by CMC, it seems there are only 3 viable scenarios:

(A) Ie Chang Ming and/or SKT trained with CMC himself;
(B) Ie Chang Ming and/or SKT trained with a student of CMC; or
(C) Ie Chang Ming and/or SKT got it from CMC's book.

What else is there?

I have zero knowledge on the subject, but wikipedia says (A) is probably impossible:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheng_Man-ch'ing
At best, ICM/SKT learned from CMC in a seminar format, but it doesn't sound like they could have trained with him for any significant length of time.

While possible, (B) isn't flattering. As Bruce noted, SKT proclaims to have "mastered" tai chi. In whose opinion? A wandering student of CMC, training a newly created form?

Most plausible is (C). This situation makes book learning somewhere in the SD supply chain look fairly likely, and if it happened once it casts doubt on the entire system.

[kwaichang]

Shui Jao uniforms are similar to Judo Gi, The Gi is based on a Kimono design brought about by Jigoro Kano and that is based upon traditional Chinese clothing. So who knows, GMT told me that the Tai Chi we do was practiced in the Chen Village and that it wasnt far from the Shaolin Monastery. So the monks incorporated it and that is what we do , I know now that isnt true. Seemed plausible at the time though. The Hsing Ie is similar to what I have seen in books and in person so I will cont to perform it. KC

[kwaichang]

It said in the article that over 10,000 people in asia practice the Tai Chi of which u speak so GMT may have learned it from one of those. as far a Japanese Karate the only art that may be similar may be Shorin ji Kempo a japanese Shaolin style. KC

[tattooedmonk]

You have issue with me now!? You can save your holier than all kung fu attitude for someone else. How about "Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do!? Wasnt he chinese with a chinese background in martial arts?! As I understand it DO is Dao/ Tao that's the translation

How is this a tantrum? sensative much.? get the sand out of your man-gina.

I am attempting to learn why it is you would throw that in there for no reason. just a troll. here ya go more fodder.idiot.

[sean_stonehart]

It said in the article that over 10,000 people in asia practice the Tai Chi of which u speak so GMT may have learned it from one of those. as far a Japanese Karate the only art that may be similar may be Shorin ji Kempo a japanese Shaolin style. KC

Eh the only thing Shaolin about Shorinji is marketing. It's Hakko-ryu jujutsu (IIRC) revised.

Far more than 10k practice CMC's version of Yang.

[kwaichang]

No Shorinji Kempo is not Hakko Ryu Ju jitsu. It is more Karate esk. KC

[sean_stonehart]

No Shorinji Kempo is not Hakko Ryu Ju jitsu. It is more Karate esk. KC

Hmmm... ok... I need to tell some SJK people I know they're incorrect then...

[Drake]

How is this a tantrum? sensative much.? get the sand out of your man-gina.

I am attempting to learn why it is you would throw that in there for no reason. just a troll. here ya go more fodder.idiot.

You need more punctuation training. Your grammar discipline is weak.

[brucereiter]

1849 su kong tai jin was born in fukien provence
1850 sukong tai jin was found by a shaolin monk and taken into the temple
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1875 "su kong tai jin/ ""council""destroy the temple instead of allowing the ching government army / a traitor monk to destroy the temple ??date??"
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1880 ie chang ming was born in fukien province. At some point entered the shaolin temple and then followed su kong tai jin into the mountains.
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1911 ching dynasty falls, some time after ie chand ming kills ching soldiers and flees to bandung indonesia. (may have left after 1928 since ie is said to have studied with su kong until his death???)
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1928 su kong tai jin died in fukien provence mountains
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1930 "jiang rong qiao creates the ""original baguazhang form"" some time in the 30's I think???"
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1943 sin kwang the' born in bandung indonesia
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1948 hiang kwang the born in bandung indonesia/ sin kwang the' began sandburn training for 6 months
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1950 "sin kwang the started to study at ie chang mings school ""central shaolin wushu school"" in bandung"
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1954 "sin kwang the studied ""lower school""
1955 "sin kwang the studied ""lower school"" and awarded black belt level 1"
1956 "sin kwang the studied ""middle school""
1957 "sin kwang the studied ""middle school""
1958 "sin kwang the studied ""middle school"" and awarded black belt level 3 /some time around 15 years old sin the meets ""maters wu"" and is introduced to internal."
1959 "sin kwang the studied ""upper school""
1960 "sin kwang the studied ""upper school""
1961 "sin kwang the studied ""upper school""
1962 "sin kwang the studied ""upper school""
1963 "sin kwang the studied ""upper school"" "
1964 sin kwang the awarded black belt level 5. sin kwang the moved to lexington ky to start college. Same year he starts teaching shaolin in lexington.
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1968 ie chang ming awarded sin kwang the 10th degree red belt grandmaster/1968 mideast national tournament, bill walace competed.
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1971 national karate grand championship sat sept 18 1971 u.k. coliseum
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1976 ie chang ming dies in bandung indonesia/some claim he died in 1968. (some say 68 some 76???)
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1978 "sin kwang the opens the ""sports center""
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1994 "?? System is named ""shaolin do"" ?? But may have been reffered to as ""shaolin do"" some time before."
1995 "sin kwang the and james halladay release the book ""shaolin do secrets from the temple""
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2011 http://www.shaolin-do.com/
2012 sin the admits to making up parts of the shaolin do system and to lying about some parts of the shaolin do system and the material he teaches.