Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[tattooedmonk]

Yeah it does... CLF and TJQ are taught side by side, not in addition to the either.

Kinda like... when I want a beer and a shot, I get both, not a boilermaker. Make sense?

Taught side by side... not one to compliment or enhance the other.

Personally I don't like TJQ. I prefer the CLF internal sets and mechanics... it's much more to my liking & disposition... plus it's all CLF, nothing borrowed, nothing shaved off of something else.

But don't they enhance and compliment one another?? You drink both to get a head change though ,do you not??And if you have both do they not give you more of a head change than if you had one or the other??

[youcandokungfu]

Hay guys move over bruce lee and jackie chan and jet li and steven segal
and here is the real northern style of instructional dvds by Marco revah
click here at www.youcandokungfu.com look at the 3 and 4 arm and 7 arm wooden dummy let me know what you think
By you can do kung fu . com

[sean_stonehart]

But don't they enhance and compliment one another??

The way they're taught no. I don't have to study the TJQ or vice versa. They're independent of each other, therefore not there to enhance or compliment the other in a single curriculum.

Color by numbers... 1) Go to CLF Class, 2) Go to TJQ Class ... no 3) go to class where you do both...

You drink both to get a head change though ,do you not??

Sure, but mixing is more often than not a risky undertaking & much better left alone rather than hanging solo with a favored flavor

And if you have both do they not give you more of a head change than if you had one or the other??

Yeah and which leads to the body becoming confused unless there's a sufficient amount of body mass to deal with the effects. To put it simply...

unless my CLF is good & solid, my TJQ will be diluting the CLF because my body is still learning & acclamating to CLF & vice versa... you need to learn a single method before branching off otherwise you you end up doing a body puke of CMA...

[Baqualin]

Yeah but BQ... the difference is Chan Heung never did what SD has. He didn't take 3 different teachings, change the outward appearance & loose lots of the mechanics & say he had the original.

He took 3 the teachings of 3 different people & created something new by combining them and exploring the possibilities of them as one cohesive piece. He named it after them to honor their teachings & as his teachers, proclaim them as his teacher, but what he taught was created by him from their teachings. Not renamed or glossed over.

Many many many CMAs were done like that.

SD hasn't done that to any degree. Instead, SD has laid claim to many things as their own through some dubious & questionable lineage claims. There are examples that could be named, but there's no reason to rehash.

If it were put out "Oh yeah, I learned "X" from "Y" in 19xx" by ST, there'd be no issue. He would be doing exactly what many CMA teachers have done, borrowed, learned, bought, cajoled, etc... sets from other systems. Instead, by laying out the claims that have been thoroughly discussed... there's an air of dishonesty & mediocrity surrounding the basic CMA skills and training, lack of CMA culture taught and learned, by people in SD.

You've got my email addy waiting in PM... please feel free to drop a note.

I hear you & all the claims....but in everything he has taught me (or EML) GMS has always given credit to the originators of the form or system being taught as it was past on to him by GMIe.....sometimes that has been wrong & GMS corrected it...Ex. Chen 83....after visiting a grave yard by the Chen village he realized a small generational discrepancy and corrected it...no one else with him would have known.
As I've said before SD's not for everybody...just like CLF is not for me

[tattooedmonk]

The way they're taught no. I don't have to study the TJQ or vice versa. They're independent of each other, therefore not there to enhance or compliment the other in a single curriculum.

Color by numbers... 1) Go to CLF Class, 2) Go to TJQ Class ... no 3) go to class where you do both...



Sure, but mixing is more often than not a risky undertaking & much better left alone rather than hanging solo with a favored flavor



Yeah and which leads to the body becoming confused unless there's a sufficient amount of body mass to deal with the effects. To put it simply...

unless my CLF is good & solid, my TJQ will be diluting the CLF because my body is still learning & acclamating to CLF & vice versa... you need to learn a single method before branching off otherwise you you end up doing a body puke of CMA...

This is why most of the programs now are adopting and internal and eternal class.

I get what you are saying and in a lot of ways I agree with you ...but with me I can handle the beer and the shots and whateverelse I have served to me.

[arinathos.valin]

I hear you & all the claims....but in everything he has taught me (or EML) GMS has always given credit to the originators of the form or system being taught as it was past on to him by GMIe.....sometimes that has been wrong & GMS corrected it...Ex. Chen 83....after visiting a grave yard by the Chen village he realized a small generational discrepancy and corrected it...no one else with him would have known.
As I've said before SD's not for everybody...just like CLF is not for me

BQ, I accept that GMT may have given credit where credit is due... but it isn't making its way down the food chain. If one checks out the various SD websites, any mention of Cheng Man Ching or Jiang Rong Qiao is extremely rare, as originators of the SD taiji and classic bagua forms. I'd be willing to bet that most schools don't actually know the lineage of many of the internal or external forms. The Shaolin Do: Secrets from the Temple book tries to make direct links to the internal arts of taiji, xingyi, and bagua that are spurious at best. One of the previous posters had to correct a fellow SDer who claimed that the taiji forms were 'direct from the temple'... I'm still not sure after reading the post whether the 'correctee' (is that really a word?) was really convinced.

This isn't to say that SD isn't accurately documenting its lineage in its upper echelon, but the ignorance of many SD schools about the lineage certainly isn't helping.

[Baqualin]

BQ, I accept that GMT may have given credit where credit is due... but it isn't making its way down the food chain. If one checks out the various SD websites, any mention of Cheng Man Ching or Jiang Rong Qiao is extremely rare, as originators of the SD taiji and classic bagua forms. I'd be willing to bet that most schools don't actually know the lineage of many of the internal or external forms. The Shaolin Do: Secrets from the Temple book tries to make direct links to the internal arts of taiji, xingyi, and bagua that are spurious at best. One of the previous posters had to correct a fellow SDer who claimed that the taiji forms were 'direct from the temple'... I'm still not sure after reading the post whether the 'correctee' (is that really a word?) was really convinced.

This isn't to say that SD isn't accurately documenting its lineage in its upper echelon, but the ignorance of many SD schools about the lineage certainly isn't helping.

I agree and some people mistake ties to the temple as from the temple.....and as I've always said we've grown to big......now we will suffer for it

[Lamassu]

Hay guys move over bruce lee and jackie chan and jet li and steven segal
and here is the real northern style of instructional dvds by Marco revah
click here at www.youcandokungfu.com look at the 3 and 4 arm and 7 arm wooden dummy let me know what you think
By you can do kung fu . com

This is spam, you may want to ban this guy and delete his posts. Just FYI.

[bodhi warrior]

BQ, I accept that GMT may have given credit where credit is due... but it isn't making its way down the food chain. If one checks out the various SD websites, any mention of Cheng Man Ching or Jiang Rong Qiao is extremely rare, as originators of the SD taiji and classic bagua forms. I'd be willing to bet that most schools don't actually know the lineage of many of the internal or external forms. The Shaolin Do: Secrets from the Temple book tries to make direct links to the internal arts of taiji, xingyi, and bagua that are spurious at best. One of the previous posters had to correct a fellow SDer who claimed that the taiji forms were 'direct from the temple'... I'm still not sure after reading the post whether the 'correctee' (is that really a word?) was really convinced.

This isn't to say that SD isn't accurately documenting its lineage in its upper echelon, but the ignorance of many SD schools about the lineage certainly isn't helping.

Yea I remember reading on one Sd school's website, they claimed to teach the original pakua from which all other pakua comes from. I learned Pakua from GMS and he never mentioned Jiang rong qiao as the forms originator. I also learned taichi 64 from him and again he never mentioned cheng man ching as the forms creator. These things I had to learn from my own research.

[Shaolin Wookie]

All I'm saying is there is a whole mountain range out there - take a look and then comment. (of course I'm going to hear that they have already ...and....)

Been there, done that (traditional Longfist and some wushu). Said to myself, man, this isn't a good investment of money (done other CMA's and capoeira as long as I've been in SD), because I'm doing the exact same things, only with different emphasis, based on the structure of the system and style. I climbed at least four mountains, stood at the top, and said: "****, these mountains all look alike." So I picked the one that was most challenging to climb.

KFM'ers said: "Yeah, but you still suck b/c you like SD better." I still do capoeira in the summers, though.

really, very interesting. that's why there's a "t" in front of tcma. no secret handshake, only proper ettiquete. your school is indonesian, what would you know of a tcma school and there practices?

I know the ones I went to all allowed you to wear what you wanted, and were run by little chinese guys who rented space out of karate and tae kwan do schools, because they had other jobs. None of them called themselves a sifu. But their kung-fu was better than the commercial schools whihc were fulltime "traditional" schools, equipped with altars, incense, and lion costumes. The question is, are you trying to be chinese, or are you studying a chinese martial art? No lion dances for me, LOL...........The schools that harped on lineages were the ones run by white and black american dudes (who usually had chinese wives....I'm not being presumptuous, I actually saw them) and did their best to be chinese. Note: you don't have to be chinese, a buddhist, or a taoist to do kung fu.....LOL.....BTW, I'm a white american atheist grad student doing kung fu.....LOL......a joke in itself....

BQ, I accept that GMT may have given credit where credit is due... but it isn't making its way down the food chain. If one checks out the various SD websites, any mention of Cheng Man Ching or Jiang Rong Qiao is extremely rare, as originators of the SD taiji and classic bagua forms. I'd be willing to bet that most schools don't actually know the lineage of many of the internal or external forms.

And many I talk with on this issue generally don't really care. (that includes the other CMA's I studied ). Lineage is an internet thing. I've never heard it elswhere. It's usually posted in the school. Some people harp on it and try to impress you with it as soon as you walk in the door. But really, it's just a list of chinese dudes, most of whom are dead, and I don't really care about any of that.....LOL.....

Lineages don't make people better. My longfist teacher had impressive credentials, but his students weren't that great, and couldn't fight very well (compared to SD). What I want to do is challenge myself and learn to fight. I don't know about the system as a whole, but some of my teachers are very scary dudes when you touch hands. Not all.....but the good ones are. And it's always easy to tell the good ones apart.

The Shaolin Do: Secrets from the Temple book tries to make direct links to the internal arts of taiji, xingyi, and bagua that are spurious at best.

It's not the best book, and it was obviously written by someone who really believes in the system as it is advertised (Like, the best ever, for sure!) It's just propaganda. I don't particularly like it.

This isn't to say that SD isn't accurately documenting its lineage in its upper echelon, but the ignorance of many SD schools about the lineage certainly isn't helping.

I do know this, all lineage claims following from GM The' can be verified. They're all documented on SDA, SD, and CSC websites. I can follow my teacher's lineage back to GM The', and from GM The' jump back to the original lineage.

But really, from there, again, its just two more chinese dudes, one of whom was exceptionally hairy.

I can look at Senior Master Grooms and see where part of my teacher's knowledge comes from, just as I could look at some other SD guys from TEnnessee and Kentuck and say the exact same thing. And I can look at myself and see where all my teaching has come from, and not all of it is from the master of the school I attend. I give credit to fellow students and some of the "lower level" sifus for all I learned. I didn't learn anything from the hairy guy or GGpappy Ie. So I don't really care about that.

Seriously, leave your lineages at the door.

[MasterKiller]

I climbed at least four mountains, stood at the top, and said: "****, these mountains all look alike." So I picked the one that was most challenging to climb.

Oh brother. After only 2 years, you can't even see the peaks yet, let alone reach one of them.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Actually, what I said to myself was: "****, they really do look like a bunch of tits. I wonder which ones are real, and which ones are fake."

If you can touch 'em, they're all real.

[Baqualin]

Actually, what I said to myself was: "****, they really do look like a bunch of tits. I wonder which ones are real, and which ones are fake."

If you can touch 'em, they're all real.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BQ

[sean_stonehart]

Boob jokes relating to fu... not bad, but remember you have to try multiple boobs before settling on the ones for you otherwise you're missing out

[djcaldwell]

Okay. I've accepted that it's easier to convince an athiest that there is a God with no substantial proof than it is to show SDers that there is more than what they are learning poorly - with an abundance of proof from all over. So I'll lurk and wait patiently for that one "good representation" video to pop up from one of SD's elite showing us what all these other SD schools apparently can not.

Or, maybe they will grace us with a demonstration of the deadly skill at a tournament one day so that the world can see what SD is all about and not just in a park dancing infront of non MA people....I know, I know...that video..arrgggg