Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Darthlawyer]

For the love of all that is good and holy!!

Gene(or any moderator for that matter). PLEASE lock this thread!

Shao-lin Do may exist in terms of..yeah..there are schools you can visit that claim to teach the art of the "Grandmaster" of the Shaolin temple(of which there is NONE--period!!!).....

BUT..

It is NOT an official style of Shaolin kung fu!!


Fight the phonies,
LTN

I wonder if this guy can tell the difference between traditional Shaolin and the Wu-Shu they teach at the current "Shaolin" (c)(tm) school...

[One student]

the master cook I am referring to is in hamilton . I dont know what affiliation he may have with the blue ash school.


the jerry cook referred to here http://9dragonskungfu.com/master_jerry_cook.html
is a totally differant guy. I made the leap that since we are in the Shaolin-do forum that Master Cook in Ohio was the teacher you guys were talking about.

Dennis Cook and Jerome Cook, brothers, teach SD in Hamilton, Ohio. I believe it is one of their students who runs the Blue Ash, Ohio, SD school.

NOT the "Jerry Cook" demonstrating the spear form.

[LaterthanNever]

"Just for the fun of it, try, really try, to imagine that somewhere there is someone that disagrees with you. Yes, I know, hard to do, but try"

You are free to believe what you wish. You are also free to believe about a style which there is no official confirmation by the Shaolin temple that there was ever a "grandmaster" of Shaolin..nor a record of Su Kong Dai Djin(or whatever his name is) training in the walls of the temple(much less being promoted to Grandmaster!)

Themeecer,

Need to update my profile. Grad school GRADUATE. 4 years of Hung Ga training. 1 year of Wing Chun, 1 year of Northern Eagle Claw kung fu, 3 years of Preying mantis kung fu training.

Satisfied? I would face a Shao-lin Do guy any day of the week.

And your qualifications please? Oops..I forgot. You trained as a 12 generation disciple of Su Kong..or is is Sin Kwang The right?

How the Karate Gi in your kung fu training holding up?

[Old Noob]

the master cook I am referring to is in hamilton . I dont know what affiliation he may have with the blue ash school.


the jerry cook referred to here http://9dragonskungfu.com/master_jerry_cook.html
is a totally differant guy. I made the leap that since we are in the Shaolin-do forum that Master Cook in Ohio was the teacher you guys were talking about.

This guy may not be the Jerry Cook in Hamilton but he is the same guy doing the form in the video. His bio has no linkage to SD. Cook's version also resembles this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vbg4...ature=youtu.be

Both versions are similar to ours.

[LaterthanNever]

Silly me,

Need to update my profile. Grad school GRADUATE. 4 years of Hung Ga training. 1 year of Wing Chun, 1 year of Northern Eagle Claw kung fu, 3 years of Preying mantis kung fu training..AND COUNTING

SD people. Please post an official statement from the Shaolin temple (the one in CHINA..not some cracker jack factory in Indonesia) Abbot recognizing Su Kong Dai Djin(which I am almost certain is not any chinese dialect) and current "Grandmaster"(which leaves a real foul taste in my mouth) Sin Kwang The as the "grandmaster" and leader of Shaolin(minus the hyphen) and then maybe..just maybe I will believe it.

Clock is ticking fellas. Remember..your acknowledged leaders of SD are the ones who made this statement..not me!

[LaterthanNever]

"Grandmaster" The does some "mantis" kung fu at the .40 second mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9xcly0coJw

It's the "new" mantis form..let me guesss: "Newborn mantis nibbles on the stack of Ben Franklins"..caveat emptor fellas..caveat emptor.

And now for some REAL mantis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4zESDILtYc

[LaterthanNever]

SithLegal..er..um, I mean DarthLawyer,


"I wonder if this guy can tell the difference between traditional Shaolin and the Wu-Shu they teach at the current "Shaolin" (c)(tm) school..."

Well it's obvious that YOU can't if you are spending money and time on Shao-Lin Do.

For the record..Mantis(be it done by Sin Kwang The) is not part of the Shaolin temple origins. It was developed outside of the temple.

And now Sin Kwang The speaks about the "history of the Tiger Crane forms" on the clip I posted? Interesting. So what he teaches looks like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcANYDDOv78

[Darthlawyer]

The current Shao-lin temples were set up by the Communist government and teach wu shu. They've got as much a claim to the Shaolin lineage as a kid who got an official Shaolin Master Ring out of a crackerjack box.

Seems like you can't even make up your mind as to what type of Kung Fu you want to study. If you are interested in demonstrating you ability to fight in a sporting context, I know some people who are participating in the 2012 IKF World Classic Amateur Kickboxing world championships next summer in Orlando, Florida. I'd love to see what your training has allowed you to accomplish physically.

Frankly, I wouldn't care if it turned out that Su Kong never existed. I know the techniques I've learned hit hard and fast and often. I'd say many of the people who fight competitively here would agree with a statement that forms training really isn't even necessary. What is important is finding a group of disciplined martial artists who are willing to train constantly to improve theirselves, and are willing to work with you while you improve. If Sin Kwang The decided tomorrow that he's really just the grandmaster of interplanetary funksmanship, I'd still go to my class on Tuesday. I'd also still continue to do several rounds of heavy bag training, focus mitt training, road work, forms work, stretching, strength training and other practice I do every day. Then I'll go to work and take children away from drug addict parents (I'm that kind of Sith Lawyer). You can run your mouth about Shaolin-Do's quirks, but it doesn't change the fact that, if trained seriously, it works. One can say the same of most any batch of punches, kicks, throws, eye gouges, groin shots, and other martial techniques, but the teachers in the system I've come across have been kind, supportive people who are willing to work with people of many different goals in their training, from combat oriented individuals, to ones seeking spiritual growth.

Additionally, when you state that Mantis was developed outside of the Temple, are you referring to Southern or Northern Mantis? I know at least one mantis system was developed by a secular disciple at a shaolin temple. It was further developed by the buddhist monks in the temple, but then popularized by a Taoist priest from Wudang. Other legends indicate that it was started outside of the temple proper (at least with Northern, but that it was developed further by Abbot Fu Yu in the 13th century). I'm not by any means a scholar on mantis, but to make blanket statements about the origins of "Mantis" without recognizing the obvious differences, and sources, in Northern and Southern Mantis, would tend to make one sound ignorant of Kung Fu in general.

[One student]

"Just for the fun of it, try, really try, to imagine that somewhere there is someone that disagrees with you. Yes, I know, hard to do, but try"

You are free to believe what you wish. You are also free to believe about a style which there is no official confirmation by the Shaolin temple that there was ever a "grandmaster" of Shaolin..nor a record of Su Kong Dai Djin(or whatever his name is) training in the walls of the temple(much less being promoted to Grandmaster!)

Themeecer,

Need to update my profile. Grad school GRADUATE. 4 years of Hung Ga training. 1 year of Wing Chun, 1 year of Northern Eagle Claw kung fu, 3 years of Preying mantis kung fu training.

Satisfied? I would face a Shao-lin Do guy any day of the week.

And your qualifications please? Oops..I forgot. You trained as a 12 generation disciple of Su Kong..or is is Sin Kwang The right?

How the Karate Gi in your kung fu training holding up?

For those who insist on criticising the uniform in SD: Please check out a small budget independent movie, "Fighter" (not the recent "The Fighter."). Its a about a traditional Muslim family in a Scandinavian country (Denmark I think, with English subtitles), and the teenage girl in the family goes against tradition and behind her father's back to take up kung fu. The school she goes to is heavy on sparring, full contact, and what I'd say is traditional Chinese forms. Run by an obviously Chinese sifu, who also according to the credits is the fight choreographer. The movie is about the girl's struggles to pursue kung fu and still honor her family and religious traditions.

The point is, the entire kung fu school wears gi's in practice and competition. The sifu wears white, students black. With sashes not belts, but gi's.

Its not just SD, and that has been pointed out on this and other threads before. Although there are some valid points and questions about SD, the uniform is just not one of them.

[shen ku]

its funny what you find.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDLxVyNvcvM

[shen ku]

why would anyone wear a gi and say the teach kung fu?? it just can't be done... i know for myself if i have on my Levi's i just can move my chi worth a darn...

[shen ku]

and look at this one..... i do not see any frogbuttons.... cannot be any type of kung fu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua3jX...649EBB0F35905C

[shen ku]

oh wait could this be the true one??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnGEX_x_FGY

[shen ku]

and how can this kid do kung fu in shorts.... it must be just another fake internet vedio......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgFFivfkfgE

[LaterthanNever]

"The current Shao-lin temples were set up by the Communist government and teach wu shu. They've got as much a claim to the Shaolin lineage as a kid who got an official Shaolin Master Ring out of a crackerjack box."


History lesson 101 Darth: It's the SHAOLIN temple..there is no hyphen! Second..there is a standardized wu-shu curriculum..yes..that's true. There are also legitimate styles still practiced there: Hong Quan,etc.

"Seems like you can't even make up your mind as to what type of Kung Fu you want to study."

Ladies and gentleman, I'd like you all to be first hand witnesses to the most hypocritical pot calling the kettle black statement ever made in the history of mankind...this is from a guy who studies from a grandmaster who claims to teach..wait for it..900 styles!!!! I've studied 4! Now some basic math folks..what is less..4..or 900?? U--duuuhh! I have indeed studied more than one style. And future plans include going back to complete my training in the previous three.



"If you are interested in demonstrating you ability to fight in a sporting context, I know some people who are participating in the 2012 IKF World Classic Amateur Kickboxing world championships next summer in Orlando, Florida."

I'm not an amateur..sorry. I'm also not a kickboxer!!




"I'd love to see what your training has allowed you to accomplish physically."

I'll bet you would!

"Frankly, I wouldn't care if it turned out that Su Kong never existed."


Which is all the more reason why it is so confusing why you jump to his defense to offer such a long and drawn out explanation.

" If Sin Kwang The decided tomorrow that he's really just the grandmaster of interplanetary funksmanship, I'd still go to my class on Tuesday."

And if he did..would you be still gullable enough to follow the guy?




" Then I'll go to work and take children away from drug addict parents (I'm that kind of Sith Lawyer). "

That's commendable.




"You can run your mouth about Shaolin-Do's quirks, but it doesn't change the fact that, if trained seriously, it works."

Quirks?? My god man!! The guy claims to be a "Grandmaster" of all Shaolin when the temple has not ever used such a title..not NOW..not EVER!! That is not a mere quirk. If bells and red flags are not going off at this claim alone..there is surely something wrong here! And neither is claiming to "know 900(and teach!!) styles"!! It is just not physically possible to learn that many styles. PERIOD!! It's not possible to learn 900 forms!

80% or more of what I witnessed when I visited a SD school would leave most people either dead or crippled in a serious street fight where the attacker was intent on killing you. The bird chirping noises in one of the forms, ataxic gait and complete lack of understanding of how to stand in a stance with proper root and power generation are just not going to help someone.



"Additionally, when you state that Mantis was developed outside of the Temple, are you referring to Southern or Northern Mantis?"

CRIMINY!! Shouldn't someone who studies under the Grandmaster of Shaolin know this?



" I'm not by any means a scholar on mantis, but to make blanket statements about the origins of "Mantis" without recognizing the obvious differences, and sources, in Northern and Southern Mantis, would tend to make one sound ignorant of Kung Fu in general."


Blanket??? I study a legitimate style of Tang Lang(mantis) kung fu(8 step mantis). Your style teaches ..it seems like one whole(?) form of mantis and then has the b-lls to say it's a whole STYLE of mantis. Remember..styles are comprised of FORMS.

Yeah..ignorance is something that Sin Kwang is sure perpetuating allright!!