View Poll Results: What to do about the 'Is Shaolin-Do for real?' thread

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  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts!

    22 38.60%
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    13 22.81%
  • Keep IS-Dfr locked down. All IS-Dfr posters deserved to be punished.

    5 8.77%
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Thread: Is Shaolin-Do for real?

  1. #8386
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    from www.mikementzer.com

    "WARM MARBLE" The Lethal Physique of Bruce Lee

    By John Little
    Introduction by Mike Mentzer

    It is absolutely amazing how much of an impact that Bruce Lee's strength and physical development have had on athletes, bodybuilders and average men all over the face of the globe. As a young boy in high school, I can clearly recall all of the talk among my friends about the great Bruce Lee; they all were intimately familiar with Bruce's films; and they would discuss not just his epochal martial arts skills, but, also, his incredible strength and lean, shredded physique.

    Bruce LeeAs Mr. Little reports in his article, even such a personage as Joe Weider remarked on the astounding muscular refinement and definition of Lee's physique, especially the master's abs. As Mr. Little also explains, Bruce Lee's physique had a remarkable influence on some of today's top physique champs. Bodybuilding luminaries, including Lou Ferrigno, Lee Haney, Dorian Yates, Rachel Mclish, Lenda Murray, Flex Wheeler and Shawn Ray have all spoken on record concerning the enormous impact the physique of Bruce Lee had on them. Why? Why would the physique of the mighty mite, never massively developed along the lines of the bodybuilding greats I just enumerated, but described by some "as the most defined physique in the world." I leave that unanswered, as author, John Little, will provide an incisive, eloquent answer...

    Subsections in the article will titillate the legion of existing Lee fanatics, and whet the appetite of those for whom this article will serve as their initial introduction to the subject. For instance, Functional Strength, Unbelievable Strength, A Battle in San Fransisco, The Bodybuilding Connection and The Routine, will rivet the reader's focus such that he will finish this article in one reading, and prompt him to want to re-read it and re-re-read it.

    I've been extremely impressed over the years as to how many bodybuilders are also highly trained martial artists. In fact, over the years I having personally supervised the training of many martial artists, with many of my phone clients already being rabid Lee fans, and martial artists seeking the most efficient manner of training for strength and speed; which was the goal of Lee's training. Also, I receive more e-mails, letters and phone calls from martial artists than any other type of athlete. This I believe follows from Lee's well known concern with weight training to develop efficiency and strength.

    I am extremely proud to say that one of my best friends, for the past 22 years, wrote this article, which is excerpted from one of the 11 books he's written on Bruce Lee. I first met John Little at Eaton's department store in Toronto where Arnold, Franco and I had made an appearance for Weider and the IFBB, in 1979. We hit it off immediately, as John was philosophically oriented, along with having a passionate interest in bodybuilding. After that initial meeting, we met at Lou Hollozi's gym in Toronto in 1980, where I conducted a seminar; and, with that, John and I further cemented our friendship. Subsequently, John made a number of trips to Los Angeles, where he'd usually stay with me in my apartment in West Hollywood. His primary purpose in traveling to southern California was to pursue the subjects of those he wrote books about, including Steve Reeves and Lou Ferrigno.

    It was finally, in 1992, that Joe Weider brought John to Los Angeles to write for Flex. This only lasted three years, as John was more interested in writing freely about his passion, namely - philosophy, martial arts, the philosophy of Bruce Lee's, who, too, was a fervent student of philosophy, his personal library packed with philosophy books that extended from the floor to the ceiling and spanned the length of the room. His quest for the truth saw him avidly studying philosophies ranging from that of Krishnamurti's to our most revered, Ayn Rand.

    Bruce Lee's life was most interesting as he rose from a starving, poor boy in Hong Kong to the world's most celebrated movie star in Hollywood, having a greater impact on more people than that of Elvis Presley's, James Dean's and Marilyn Monroe's combined!

    I trust that you, dear reader, will gain much knowledge from John Little's article, along with the added inspiration that will act to have you approach your own training with greater inspiration and motivation than ever before. Above all else, I ardently desire that you will read John Little's superlative article mostly for the sheer pleasure of it.

    Mike Mentzer

    "If you're talking about combat -- as it is -- well then, baby you'd better train every part of your body!" -- Bruce Lee (from the video, Bruce Lee: The Lost Interview)

    There's an anecdote that has endured some 28 years concerning the texture of the muscles that adorned the physique of the late martial arts pioneer/philosopher, Bruce Lee.

    It concerns a lady named Ann Clouse, the wife of Robert Clouse, the man who directed Lee's last film Enter the Dragon for Warner Bros. It seems that Clouse's wife had ventured onto the set of the film and was mesmerized by Lee's incredible physique as he went through his paces choreographing the fight scenes for the film, stripped to the waist under the hot and humid Hong Kong sun. In between takes, Ann approached the young superstar and asked if she could "feel his biceps." "Sure," Lee responded -- it was a request he'd received on numerous occasions -- tensing his arm and inviting her to check it out for herself. "My God!" she exclaimed, drawing her hand back instantly, "It's like feeling warm marble!"

    Bruce LeeIt's fascinating that almost three decades later, people are still talking about the body of Bruce Lee -- although it is by no means surprising. The Lee physique, once described by no less an authority on such matters than bodybuilding magnate Joe Weider as "the most defined body I've ever seen!" has attracted (much like the man's martial art and philosophy) a following that not only rivals but exceeds those of Elvis Presley, James Dean and Marilyn Monroe -- combined! Certainly his following exceeds that of any bodybuilder of a similar vintage. And even more fascinating is the fact that almost everyone gets something different out of Bruce Lee -- martial artists revere his physical dexterity, power, speed and the genius he displayed in bringing science to bear on the world of martial arts; moviegoers are impressed with the man's screen presence and animal magnetism, along with the fact that he single-handedly created a new genre of action film thus opening the door to the Stallones, Schwarzeneggers and Jackie Chans who were to follow in his footsteps; philosophers are impressed with Lee's ability to bridge the philosophical chasm separating East and the West and to synthesize the best aspects of both cultures. But there exists another pocket of humanity that sees in Lee something else -- although not entirely unrelated -- the bodybuilders. Bodybuilders, young and old, know from one quick glance at Lee's physique exactly how much labor went into its creation -- and they are, one and all, very impressed.
    go to the site to read more under: "articles" at bottom
    "Let's get the hell out of here" - J. T. Kirk. in City on the Edge of Forever

    "you've got to ask yourself a question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, PUNK?" Harry Callahan

    "Mens Sana In Corpore Sano"

    Follow the advice of Teddy Roosevelt: "Speak softly, but carry a big stick".

    "Regulate the breath, and thereby control the mind."
    -- B.K.S. Iyengar

  2. #8387
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    Hello everyone. I'm back. Aren't you all happy about that. How are all my SD friends today. Is everyone training hard? I hope so.
    Has everyone drank there cool aid this morning?

  3. #8388
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    If by "there cool aid" you mean "that thar Kool-Aid", then no. But I just rushed to the medicine cabinet and made sure to take my daily E. Coli elixir to protect me from the wave of acrimonious bull**** you're going to unleash, like a loquacious little sphincter.

    No, but really. How are you doing today?

  4. #8389
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkriii View Post
    Hello everyone. I'm back. Aren't you all happy about that. How are all my SD friends today. Is everyone training hard? I hope so.
    Has everyone drank there cool aid this morning?
    Wasn't this thread dormant for a couple of weeks before you dug it back up? Wanna hop back on the merry-go-round again?
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  5. #8390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citong Shifu View Post
    Bruce used his natural talent and fighting ability to shadow the real essence of his background or lack there of. People just don't want to hear these contradicitons. BL was talented, no doubt about it, but his foundation which contributed to his speed, power, etc is the "direct" result of his "traditional" CMA training... Bruce, even in his younger years was very arrogant which resulted in his training being incomplete (old time masters would not teach everything to those who were arrogant, self-centered, or not trust worthy, if at all). BL did alot for the martial arts, no doubt and I'm not bashing him, but lets not side step the facts and reality of his philosophy, methodology, concepts, principles, etc. Look closely, anyone who is trained indepth in the CMA and Chinese culture will see exactly where he came from and what he did and didn't do!!!!!! Bruce's concepts have been around for centuries and promoted throughout the many styles of CMA.

    For those who still believe that BL was the end all or evolutionist of modern martial arts, remember one thing. No matter what Bruce became or accomplished, he did so from his strict Traditional CMA background. everything else he just simply added to characterize his flare... LOL, for those of you who didn't know, Bruce really understood the value and neccessity of traditional martial art training (drills, fighting, & yes, forms). Bruce always wanted to be the best. By discrediting various aspects of martial art training and people following his word would ensure he stayed on top .

    I'll stick with what I have. Afterall, the teaching I have received has been around for 1500 to 5000 years, not 20 or so years...

    I encourage those to seek training in the area's there interested in. Have fun with what you do. Just remember, when you see the big picture, ther's always a bigger picture on the other side...

    Take care
    CS
    well put, I agree 100%

    I met Bruce at Ark Wong's school when he first came here from China. You opinion is right on the money.

    Many thanks, Ron Shewmaker

  6. #8391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citong Shifu View Post
    Bruce used his natural talent and fighting ability to shadow the real essence of his background or lack there of. People just don't want to hear these contradicitons. BL was talented, no doubt about it, but his foundation which contributed to his speed, power, etc is the "direct" result of his "traditional" CMA training... Bruce, even in his younger years was very arrogant which resulted in his training being incomplete (old time masters would not teach everything to those who were arrogant, self-centered, or not trust worthy, if at all). BL did alot for the martial arts, no doubt and I'm not bashing him, but lets not side step the facts and reality of his philosophy, methodology, concepts, principles, etc. Look closely, anyone who is trained indepth in the CMA and Chinese culture will see exactly where he came from and what he did and didn't do!!!!!! Bruce's concepts have been around for centuries and promoted throughout the many styles of CMA.

    For those who still believe that BL was the end all or evolutionist of modern martial arts, remember one thing. No matter what Bruce became or accomplished, he did so from his strict Traditional CMA background. everything else he just simply added to characterize his flare... LOL, for those of you who didn't know, Bruce really understood the value and neccessity of traditional martial art training (drills, fighting, & yes, forms). Bruce always wanted to be the best. By discrediting various aspects of martial art training and people following his word would ensure he stayed on top .

    I'll stick with what I have. Afterall, the teaching I have received has been around for 1500 to 5000 years, not 20 or so years...

    I encourage those to seek training in the area's there interested in. Have fun with what you do. Just remember, when you see the big picture, ther's always a bigger picture on the other side...

    Take care
    CS
    well put, I agree 100%

    I met Bruce at Ark Wong's school when he first came here from China. your opinion is right on the money.

    Many thanks, Ron Shewmaker

  7. #8392
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    shoes

    Talk about wearing shoes.

    when I started training with Ark Wong back in 1959, I asked him why we trained with our shoes on he, laughed,

    and said " can't take em off in a fight ".

    Good thread, Thanks,

    Sifu Ron

  8. #8393
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIFU RON View Post
    Talk about wearing shoes.

    when I started training with Ark Wong back in 1959, I asked him why we trained with our shoes on he, laughed,

    and said " can't take em off in a fight ".

    Good thread, Thanks,

    Sifu Ron
    Unless you're on a beach!
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  9. #8394
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    Talking 520?

    Are you F*ckin kidding me?!? This stupid thread(which lost interest in SD a while ago) has been going on for 520 pages?

    The question was whether or not SD is Shaolin Kung fu.

    The answer: nope.

    Done, and I didn't need 520 page to figure it out.

    I will even elaborate.
    Shaolin Do is basically Kempo Karate. Kempo is said to have come from Chuan Fa which is the Chniese way of saying Fist Arts. According to what I know it is mainly based on the Five Animal system which is said to have come from Shaolin but no one can really say considering the multiple versions of Five Animals in the world(Hung Gar,Hung Kuen,Bak Mei, CLF, etc...)

    Five animals itself is not even regarded as a style by many and they see it as a form and nothing more. Traces of the Five Animals can be seen in just about every style of Kung Fu and is therefore regarded as a "Ghost Style" (there but not there.)

    In Conclusion, Shaolin Do= Kempo+Karate. Kempo comes from Chuan Fa, which comes from Five Animals, which comes from Shaolin. Karate comes from southern CMA which are also said to come from Shaolin as well as the Okinawan MA of "Te/Ti"(hand).

    Technically, it can all be traced back to Shaolin if you try but Shaolin Kung Fu is consdered to be a kung fu style either created in a (Shaolin)temple or by a Shaolin Monk.

    It can also be taught in a Shaolin temple even though it may not have been created there(but there is to much controversy about this).

    Shaolin Do doesn't fit any of these descriptions. Therefore, no, it is not a Shaolin Kung Fu.

    I really hopes this clears up any confusion about this.

    WF

  10. #8395
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    What a completely novel and refreshing contribution! In light of this unique perspective, I suggest we lock this thread and consider the case closed.

  11. #8396

    Wow!!!

    Why didn't anyone come along and enlighten us like this before??

  12. #8397
    If someone locks this thread, where else will I post?

  13. #8398
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    IttokaosAccording to what I know it is mainly based on the Five Animal system which is said to have come from Shaolin but no one can really say considering the multiple versions of Five Animals in the world(Hung Gar,Hung Kuen,Bak Mei, CLF, etc...)

    There is the flaw in your argument you dont know anything. KC
    A Fool is Born every Day !

  14. #8399

    Hahahahahaha

    LMAO !! You are right he does not seem to know anything.

  15. #8400
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    Talking

    You are right. As I do not practice SD I have no problem not knowing too much about it but what I do know is that it is not Shaolin Kung Fu. Shaolin Kung Fu as in "chinese martial art that uses the 4 basic pronciples of Ti,Da, Shuai, Na that either originated in a Shaolin Temple or was created by a Shaolin Monk and still follows the principles of CMA and Shaolin."

    It doesn't make your system bad or wrong it's just not Shaolin Kung Fu.

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