Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Iron Palm]

Thats because the Soards did not know them. I have email evidence that they learned the 2 person sets from youtube videos. Whatever the Soards choose to not teach is done so because they do not know the material. period. Any material they learn they also like to attach some fabricated chinese legend or origin story so they can tell it when teaching it.

That sheds some light on why they kicked people out of their system for going east and learning those forms. It wouldn't be fitting for the peons to surpass the god-monks, would it?

[Alex Córdoba]

That's not much of a defense for this material in particular. It might feel good to call it "real CMA" but if it is only that way because it was copied from somebody else that's not very good. There's always the point that if it was taken from a book then how much was lost during transmission? Even if the movements are exact, is there something else missing?

I learned maths from a book, and my teachers as well... Are you saying my linage doesn't go back to Pitagoras?

[Judge Pen]

I read an interesting Bagua article a while ago; it's main takeaway was that if a system doesn't have a concise series of steps which build on each other to create a very specific skill set, then it is an incomplete system.

Having trained in a different style for a while now, which feels to me to be complete, or at least vastly more complete than SD, I liken the whole notion to capital theory.

If you imagine whatever art you're trying to learn is it's own economy, then the exercises, drills, training sequences, forms, etc. form a kind of knowledge capital stock that has accumulated over time. What you're attempting to build is the iphone of martial arts: a high technology version of the system (you) which takes advantage of, and would not be possible without, all the earlier inputs.

A salient example would be the notion of a technique having been "fight-tested". Rather than sit in your basement trying to imagine all the different attacks someone might use on you, hypothesizing good responses, and then going out and testing each one, that time can instead be spent training movements which have already had at least some useless aspects weeded out.

Pieces of SD may in fact be "real CMA", but in my opinion just grabbing a handful of forms here and there is like trying to build an iphone by grabbing a handful of materials and tools, and heading to a desert island in hopes that the thing will assemble itself if you just stare hard enough at it. If the rest of the infrastructure isn't there, it's extremely unlikely to happen. You might get something, but it probably won't be a very refined product since you didn't have decades of combined wisdom capital telling you what to avoid and what to emphasize from the start.

Which brings us back to the core material of SD and the question as to what material was taught as part of a comprehensive system in Indonesia (if anything).

[kwaichang]

If one learned the Hua's from a book and others from a Vid , and others from a Teacher well trained in them , and the best student of each method fought who would win. Answer: the one who trained the hardest therefore truth comes from training as well as application and strength. So I still maintain that it is wrong to steal a form but if the form is in the ether world then take it and learn. Dont claim it is something it isnt but dont be Pompous just because you have a "live" teacher. KC

[Empty_Cup]

I read an interesting Bagua article a while ago; it's main takeaway was that if a system doesn't have a concise series of steps which build on each other to create a very specific skill set, then it is an incomplete system.

Having trained in a different style for a while now, which feels to me to be complete, or at least vastly more complete than SD, I liken the whole notion to capital theory.

If you imagine whatever art you're trying to learn is it's own economy, then the exercises, drills, training sequences, forms, etc. form a kind of knowledge capital stock that has accumulated over time. What you're attempting to build is the iphone of martial arts: a high technology version of the system (you) which takes advantage of, and would not be possible without, all the earlier inputs.

A salient example would be the notion of a technique having been "fight-tested". Rather than sit in your basement trying to imagine all the different attacks someone might use on you, hypothesizing good responses, and then going out and testing each one, that time can instead be spent training movements which have already had at least some useless aspects weeded out.

Pieces of SD may in fact be "real CMA", but in my opinion just grabbing a handful of forms here and there is like trying to build an iphone by grabbing a handful of materials and tools, and heading to a desert island in hopes that the thing will assemble itself if you just stare hard enough at it. If the rest of the infrastructure isn't there, it's extremely unlikely to happen. You might get something, but it probably won't be a very refined product since you didn't have decades of combined wisdom capital telling you what to avoid and what to emphasize from the start.

SD is one extreme end of the spectrum...for better or worse. With so much material, it is very difficult to develop mastery in any particular thing. On the other end of the spectrum is the old adage "train one punch 10,000 times..." which comes with it's own pitfalls.

The real question a student needs to ask is, "where in the spectrum do I want to be?"

[kwaichang]

So i have trained many years, If I throw a Japanese Reverse Punch ie: Gyaku Tsuki 10000 times, will I be a better fighter than a person who does 50 forms that has an average of 50 punches/ strikes in them 4 times each week which would be 10000 punches total that week ? That is how I see the SD concept of so many forms etc. It works better I believe than just punching a board or doing 5 Heian forms forever. KC

[Snipsky]

The party line in the Soard schools is that SD material is so original and so authentic that as soon as they teach it people videotape them with hidden cameras and immediately try to claim it as their own. I'm not exaggerating when I say they've accused everyone from Kung Fu the tv series to Mas Oyama of stealing their stuff.

jajajajaja there is no honor amongst thieves.

If one learned the Hua's from a book and others from a Vid , and others from a Teacher well trained in them ,

shaolin do is really shaolin bunk. there is no shame in this group after knowing you learn kung fu from a teacher who buys books and videos from other styles then teaches you. shady.

[Snipsky]

Not defending but they are CMA and that was a main argument here. also if you learn from a teacher and they dont reveal all the "secrets" to the forms then what is the differense. Its just s easy to copy a vid as well as a real person , except the vid doesnt get mad and kick you out. KC still good stuff. Secrets usually come from Hard work anyway.

this is very strange comments. if i'm not wrong, this guy is saying "SO WHAT? I LEARNED IT FROM THE BOOK" so you must think you are THAT good to be able to extract something you never learned from a book. you don't even know what you'e looking at so how does that work out? it all looks exactly like SHAOLIN DO. very sad situation.

[Snipsky]

Thats because the Soards did not know them. I have email evidence that they learned the 2 person sets from youtube videos.

purely disgusting actions from alleged martial artists. **** cult leaders

[Snipsky]

Any material they learn they also like to attach some fabricated chinese legend or origin story so they can tell it when teaching it.

extremely shameless cult leaders. its funny to see the soards discuss things as if their experts. shameless

[Snipsky]

I learned maths from a book, and my teachers as well... Are you saying my linage doesn't go back to Pitagoras?

do math books purposely leave out extremely important pieces of information like they do in martial arts books?

[Snipsky]

If one learned the Hua's from a book and others from a Vid , and others from a Teacher well trained in them , and the best student of each method fought who would win. Answer: the one who trained the hardest therefore truth comes from training as well as application and strength. So I still maintain that it is wrong to steal a form but if the form is in the ether world then take it and learn. Dont claim it is something it isnt but dont be Pompous just because you have a "live" teacher. KC
___________

HSK is right, you do sound like jake mace.

[Snipsky]

So i have trained many years, If I throw a Japanese Reverse Punch ie: Gyaku Tsuki 10000 times, will I be a better fighter than a person who does 50 forms that has an average of 50 punches/ strikes in them 4 times each week which would be 10000 punches total that week ? That is how I see the SD concept of so many forms etc. It works better I believe than just punching a board or doing 5 Heian forms forever. KC

teacher of many, master of none. zero. zippo. nadda.

[Alex Córdoba]

do math books purposely leave out extremely important pieces of information like they do in martial arts books?

Math books I hope not, martial arts books I don't know, do they? What for?

[Alex Córdoba]

Who in the name of the old and new gods has tagged this thread as 'wookie sexual dynamo'.