View Poll Results: What to do about the 'Is Shaolin-Do for real?' thread

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57. You may not vote on this poll
  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts!

    22 38.60%
  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Let all the S-D threads stand independently.

    13 22.81%
  • Keep IS-Dfr locked down. All IS-Dfr posters deserved to be punished.

    5 8.77%
  • Delete them all. Let Yama sort them out.

    17 29.82%
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Thread: Is Shaolin-Do for real?

  1. #14251
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    We have discussed that already SR real or not blah blah blah an app is an app all techniques can have a use. KC
    A Fool is Born every Day !

  2. #14252
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    IF your system was legit and the forms developed by someone with correct understanding of the historical context of forms, you would realize that not EVERY move has a combat application in a form ( though you can most certainly make one have it if you want to).
    Forms were created not only to "catalog" techniques and principles but also for physical exercises.
    A move like the "kicking of the hand" was quite probably just that, a part of the form that was used for displaying/testing physical prowess ( in this case flexibility).
    Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar...
    He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    As a mod, I don't have to explain myself to you.

  3. #14253
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar...
    Thank you Freud.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  4. #14254
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    What would be interesting now is how all of this affects SD in the future. Obviously the internet debate on forums like this has not detrimentally affected SD. How does this deposition and the fall-out from it affect SD in the future?

    Obviously Sin The has a significant amount of training. He is a talented martial artist who has remained in very good shape. Anyone that has seen him conduct a seminar can tell you he is in very good shape for a man his age. The problem is that no one knows what they can believe and what is made up. If the mystique of "traditional shaolin" has been blown directly by Sin The, then why not market the art more honestly? Why not talk about what forms were created and what forms were taught in Indonesia (and by whom)?

    Apparently all that is fantasy, however, because Master Leonard's letter just circled the wagons and passed the kool-aide.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  5. #14255

    Yep

    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Pen View Post
    Apparently all that is fantasy, however, because Master Leonard's letter just circled the wagons and passed the kool-aide.
    Exactly! There was an opportunity to step back and ensure that the product was, to borrow some business lingo, more forthrightly branded and marketed without, in my opinion, doing any more damage than was done by the public availibility of the deposition itself. But circling the wagons and then calling people who like to be informed about what they choose to spend their money on ne'er-do-wells or busybodys is just insulting.

    I agree with you that, if the lower belt stuff is all made up, its very well designed and builds on itself very nicely. Seems to me you could positively market that in an honest way.

  6. #14256
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    if you look at xiaohongquan, the first slap kick for an example, the way the the kick slaps the hand is done with a slight outward crescent. in this particular example, you actually are extending your self to grab your opponent. stabilization and follow through with this example. you are also setting yourself up to clinch/grapple/throw/knee immediatly upon follow up from the kick. however you also have to think of the source of the material. what kind of fail shaolin devoted practitioner doesnt have the flexability for that?

    in regards to front snap kicks slapping the hand, i would agree that its a type of cross training. if you can do a high front snap kick and easily kick your hand without strain, that will ensure you have a greater ability for stability and foundation during a standard front kick by consistantly training that flexability and maneuverability. also, if your arent a total puss, you will kick the sh!t outa your hand every time to help toughen em up. kungfu is all about multi tasking.
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  7. #14257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
    also, if your arent a total puss, you will kick the sh!t outa your hand every time to help toughen em up. kungfu is all about multi tasking.
    LOL. That will be my instruction to new students. "Kick the sh!t outta your hand! Just kick it! Do it! Don't be a puss!"
    "I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udun! Go back to the shadow, you cannot pass!"

  8. #14258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
    if you look at xiaohongquan, the first slap kick for an example, the way the the kick slaps the hand is done with a slight outward crescent. in this particular example, you actually are extending your self to grab your opponent. stabilization and follow through with this example. you are also setting yourself up to clinch/grapple/throw/knee immediatly upon follow up from the kick. however you also have to think of the source of the material. what kind of fail shaolin devoted practitioner doesnt have the flexability for that?

    in regards to front snap kicks slapping the hand, i would agree that its a type of cross training. if you can do a high front snap kick and easily kick your hand without strain, that will ensure you have a greater ability for stability and foundation during a standard front kick by consistantly training that flexability and maneuverability. also, if your arent a total puss, you will kick the sh!t outa your hand every time to help toughen em up. kungfu is all about multi tasking.
    The two techniques in Xiao Hong Quan that you speak of are both solid applications, as for the front kick, the applications is a strike to the eyes with the hand while simuletaneously kicking the groin, misdirection, doing two things at the same time. The hand is kicked for effect, making a cool sound, conditioning the hand etc. Just as RDH said earlier. The hope is that the opponent can block at best one but the other will get through, whichever lands first. You are not really supposed to slap the foot the hand shoots out delivering a strike and the kick meets it.

  9. #14259
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    Quote Originally Posted by sha0lin1 View Post
    The two techniques in Xiao Hong Quan that you speak of are both solid applications, as for the front kick, the applications is a strike to the eyes with the hand while simuletaneously kicking the groin, misdirection, doing two things at the same time. The hand is kicked for effect, making a cool sound, conditioning the hand etc. Just as RDH said earlier. The hope is that the opponent can block at best one but the other will get through, whichever lands first. You are not really supposed to slap the foot the hand shoots out delivering a strike and the kick meets it.
    In our fabricated short forms the "hit kick" is a fundamental technique for the reasons you mention above (which are excellent applications), but when we do those forms, we typically do not kick the hand unless the kick is a straight leg front kick or an inside or outside cresent kick. I still believe the kicking the hand is more for conditioning, flexibility, focus and performance affect. With the application if it is the simultaneous strike, then kicking the hand is not necessary. If it is "pulling the head toward the hand" then the form should have the motion of also moving the hand toward the foot. One of the application exceptions I can think of right now is our short form #s 13 and 14 which include a block and then kicking the hand that you have just blocked with. But here the hand isn't high above your head and the application is to disarm or disable the imagined opponents attacking limb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  10. #14260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Pen View Post
    but when we do those forms, we typically do not kick the hand unless the kick is a straight leg front kick or an inside or outside cresent kick. I still believe the kicking the hand is more for conditioning, flexibility, focus and performance affect. With the application if it is the simultaneous strike, then kicking the hand is not necessary. If it is "pulling the head toward the hand" then the form should have the motion of also moving the hand toward the foot.
    JP just invented the correct and passed it off as an ancient secret.
    He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    As a mod, I don't have to explain myself to you.

  11. #14261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Noob View Post
    Exactly! There was an opportunity to step back and ensure that the product was, to borrow some business lingo, more forthrightly branded and marketed without, in my opinion, doing any more damage than was done by the public availibility of the deposition itself. But circling the wagons and then calling people who like to be informed about what they choose to spend their money on ne'er-do-wells or busybodys is just insulting..
    Leonard =

    He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    As a mod, I don't have to explain myself to you.

  12. #14262
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    Leonard =

    That picture is so horrible and funny at the same time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  13. #14263
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    JP just invented the correct and passed it off as an ancient secret.
    As long as its correct.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  14. #14264
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar...
    Yes, but even then, it can be named Monica.
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


    For the Women:

    + = & a

  15. #14265

    What it all means.

    I myself have read the deposition and followed all of the comments on this board.
    I do not know GM Sin personally, nor have I met him. What I do know is that I have nothing but the utmost respect and trust in my Master, as well as his Master. Regardless of what the comments about SD are (and there are many), I know that my daughter and I have only just started in it; of course this is the first formal instruction (besides our instruction in boxing, and my brief run in the amateur boxing circuit) we have had in any martial art, and both of us have noticed a big difference in our level of conditioning as well as our ability to defend ourselves when we spar together. The foundational techniques that we have been taught and guided in have proved phenomenal so far, and through it all our teacher (Master) has had the patience to correct many of our mistakes in technique and application. We will continue to train in SD, and if we can continue to improve we just might be able prove ourselves worthy of the level of instruction and dedication that our teacher provides us. My daughter and I can only hope to emulate our Master, given that we remain as dedicated to him as he is to teaching us.

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