Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[taai gihk yahn]

not hiding anywhere. You want to know who I am ask. I will be more than happy to provide you with what you need.

ok, who are you?

[brucereiter]

Nothing to do with the original post so sorry for the intrusion...
I really think if people posted on these martial arts forums with their real name and identity that the conversation would be more honest. Even "online" people should be accountable for their words. Although there are exceptions to that idea as shown by one on this and other recent threads.

The word of the day.
Ad hominium
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Why do people feel the need to say such insulting things to other posters here. Can you not build a reasonable argument to support your opinions and thoughts on a subject with out the need to insult.

I really do wonder how tough some of ya'all would be standing face to face alone with some of the people you talk **** to here. If some of these things were said in person I am sure it could escalate to one person striking another.

One of you stated something to the affect that you could take any sd person but then back track and talk about weight class etc. not unlike many other martial arts traditional or not sd has some very strong, fit men who can and will fight.

I have plenty of issues with sin the / bill leonard but I would never say anything here hat I would not say to their face.

[hskwarrior]

my identity has always been known and who my teacher is.
i know i'm not afraid

[taai gihk yahn]

Why do people feel the need to say such insulting things to other posters here. Can you not build a reasonable argument to support your opinions and thoughts on a subject with out the need to insult..

I agree; you will note, for example, that while I will readily say negative things about SD's lineage myth, as well as the content and people's performance of the forms, I don't actually insult people directly (unlike ur fellow/former SD'r TTM, who freely uses terms like "d1ck breath" and "aszhole"; indeed, for all of his posturing about cheap shots and baseless attacks, and whatnot, TTM freely dispenses these terms; not that any of us feel particularly pained by them, but it does speak to his level of discourse...also, while I don't advertise my location and name the way Frank does, I don't hide my identity - it would b pretty easy to find me; TTM, OTOH, seems to revel in his anonymous status and hurls the epithets without compunction because of that);

while I suppose I might tone it down a bit if face-to-face, I would have no issue giving my honest assessment to anyone from SD (again, perhaps a little more gently, if they were inclined to give what I say credence);

[taai gihk yahn]

my identity has always been known and who my teacher is.

who are you, Frank; who are you REALLY?

[brucereiter]

my identity has always been known and who my teacher is.
i know i'm not afraid

Yes I understand ... That part is not addressed to you frank. I do however take issue with some of your methods of communication. You have in fact said things about people that simply are not true on this forum. This by my definition is lying.

I do not defend Shaolin do or sin the at all. I am very disappointed in sin the. Unfortunately sin the's lies, omissions and partial truths has created a very uncomfortable situation for many of his students.
I wish he would just tell the whole truth about the history of his martial arts.

Frank even though you are not afraid I think you would be a reasonable enough human in person to not say some of the things you have said on line to a persons face. Maybe I am wrong. I am asking people to make their points in a more constructive way.

It is obvious that you or I can have any opinion we chose. How we express those opinions is what I am addressing.

[taai gihk yahn]

I do not defend Shaolin do or sin the at all. I am very disappointed in sin the. Unfortunately sin the's lies, omissions and partial truths has created a very uncomfortable situation for many of his students.

ok, fair enough; but OTOH, in this day and age (and I mean at east the last ten years), with the availability of resources on TCMA how could one possibly not see the fraud that is SD? I mean, the "origin" story is nuts and not verifiable independently; the content is hardly "shaolin" but rather an amalgam of disparate things cobbled together over the years, and is performed in a way that has minimal if any bearing on TCMA; the uniform and terms are Japanese; and for every inconsistency, SD has an elaborate justification; not to mention it is an quasi-cult-like environment (at the very least, a cult of personality) as evidenced by the fact that seemingly intelligent people like urself took / take so long to realize what's what, and then feel regret and disappointment in a manner similar to those who leave a religious group (I'm generalizing, of course)

I wish he would just tell the whole truth about the history of his martial arts.

I think the truth is very simple: he learned some stuff in Indonesia, probably a mix of some karate, some TCMA and who knows what else, and he worked out hard, obviously he is very fit; then he came over here at a time when the whole Asian mystique thing was still viable; he settled in a part of the country that had no TCMA around / no Chinatown, and where people didn't have any real access to sources that would contradict his story; taking advantage of this, he basically was able to pass off stuff that wasn't his as part of SD; again, back then, who was going to say otherwise? and in person he's probably a charismatic guy who probably has an m.o. where he seems like he is taking u into his confidence about the super-secret stuff he knows;
do u realy need him to fess up to see what's what?

[hskwarrior]

who are you, Frank; who are you REALLY?

who am i really? I really AM not the guy who will be laying on your couch so you can fondle my joy stick. MR Preverted Head Doctor.

[hskwarrior]

Yes I understand ... That part is not addressed to you frank. I do however take issue with some of your methods of communication. You have in fact said things about people that simply are not true on this forum. This by my definition is lying.

How i deal with what i view as a troll is either to ignore them or overfeed them so much they puke. the whole purpose of a troll is to stir up stuff.

to anyone i've offended by saying something that isn't true, then like a man i apologize.

but, the fact remains, shaolin do shouldn't go learning gung fu from books and video then turn around and teach it, repackage it, and give it a new history. THAT IS THE TRUTH. for people like this, i take the kid gloves off. since someone in shaolin do boosted our lineages form, change a move or add a move here and there, give it a new history and so on is far more dispicable than any treatment by me here on this forum.

the utter disgust i feel in listening to most of the Shaolin Do students here trying to twist and turn a lie into what they pray to be the truth. its like how can anyone be so dumb? some of them who admit they believe it was taken from DFW's book, i'll respect them. still, before judging me, step back and look at the whole picture.

Frank even though you are not afraid I think you would be a reasonable enough human in person to not say some of the things you have said on line to a persons face

if someone did something to me, i will say everything i said to someone's face. what can they do? beat me up? fuk, i fell 50 feet, became paralyzed from the waist down and still came back. why should i worry about what i say to those who don't listen or doesn't care about what i'm sayin? if what i've said to people turns into a fight in person, then its on. but know, i don't normally talk to people in person like this unless provoked. once you provoke me, push the button you wanted a reaction from, and didn't like how it tasted, then don't push that button.

I am asking people to make their points in a more constructive way.

for anything to be constructive there should be respect all the way around. its given when its given. ya feel me?

[hskwarrior]

the following is what i believe sums up the true TCMA perspective in regards to Shaolin Do. I feel they should all read this and understand why we feel the way we do.

the "origin" story is nuts and not verifiable independently; the content is hardly "shaolin" but rather an amalgam of disparate things cobbled together over the years, and is performed in a way that has minimal if any bearing on TCMA; the uniform and terms are Japanese; and for every inconsistency, SD has an elaborate justification; not to mention it is an quasi-cult-like environment (at the very least, a cult of personality) as evidenced by the fact that seemingly intelligent people like urself took / take so long to realize what's what, and then feel regret and disappointment in a manner similar to those who leave a religious group (I'm generalizing, of course)

BRUCE This is you right? now, see, this right there is more believable than anything i've seen in Shaolin Do from top to bottom. your movement is much better as well. now your knife/fan video.... teasin. you said yourself you know you made mistakes. do you work with live blades as well? i prefer live blades.

[hskwarrior]

I wish he would just tell the whole truth about the history of his martial arts.

Mr Reiter, all games aside. the above statement is one of the most heartfelt ones i've read on this whole topic. and i feel for you as one of its descendants. and i agree, things would be so much better if SIN THE just issued a statement with an apology along with the truth i'm sure the rest of the TCMA world would eventually forgive and forget. you can't go wrong with the truth.

i hope you can see my position as well. My lineage knows that the 5 animal form as seen by jake's video is our form. we know there aren't any other schools that teach this specific form. sure, many schools have 5 animal forms. but no one looks the same. still, the rest of the martial arts community knows this form is from our lineage. no one has ever seen anything close to it and its framework.

There isn't a need for Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut to fight over a form we know to be ours. beyond the shadow of a doubt. but since your lineage has absorbed it via the book by DFW, all i want is its proper recognition. your lineage already practices it and is probably being spread today.

as long as YOU and YOUR students know the authentic source for this form isn't SHAOLIN DO all i can do is ask YOU to do is do whats right. honor the form and its true source. give my lineage its proper respect as its source. and i promise you you would make a good friends. just try to see things from my position just for a moment.

pls know this tho, if you want to act like the others here and keep trying to twist the truth to be in favor of Shaolin Do, then i'm not sure we can be cool. pls understand my position.

and, my offer extends to you as well, if you know the form and want the proper way of doing it, im sure my sifu will work out something.

Frank. (notice the HSK is missing).

[Jimbo]

That offer seems very reasonable for anyone out there who has any questions on the HS 5-animal form.

My Sifu used to teach it; it was one of the sets he had learned directly from DFW, maybe way back in the '70s(?). Some of my sihings learned and practiced it, but my Sifu hadn't taught it for some time. I suppose when he certified me as a sifu, I could have asked to learn it, but I remember my friend/sihing showed me the set a long time ago, and that the one-legged squat at the beginning, on the right leg with left leg extended, kind of put me off. Because back then I could do that easily, but only bending the left leg with right leg extended (opposite). Otherwise, I always thought it's an excellent set.

We have another 5-animal set from another lineage, which I did learn, but for reasons of my own I stopped practicing it.

[hskwarrior]

My sifu used to teach it; it was one of the sets he had learned directly from DFW, maybe way back in the '70s(?). He used to teach it, and some of my sihings practiced it, but he hadn't taught it for some time. I suppose when he certified me as sifu level, I could have asked to learn it, but I remember my friend/sihing showed me the set a long time ago, and that the one-legged squat at the beginning, on the right leg with left leg extended, kind of put me off. Because back then I could do that easily, but only bending the left leg with right leg extended (opposite). Otherwise, I always thought it's a cool set.

that whole opening section is rough. since i had my accident that whole section has been rough. everything after it i got down nicely. but the thing that jake is missing and i'm sure the others is the flow and essence of the form.

[Jimbo]

that whole opening section is rough. since i had my accident that whole section has been rough. everything after it i got down nicely. but the thing that jake is missing and i'm sure the others is the flow and essence of the form.

True.
Without proper instruction, and a proper base in an art, one can only acquire an empty shell of a form at best.

[Crushing Step]

For the non-CLF players like me, is there any way to see this five animal form on youtube?