Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[B-Rad]

True, most TCMA weren't taught within the military in the first place. Those that are militarized are usually simplified and meant to be taught in a pretty short amount of time en mass (like maybe boiling xingyi quan down to just the 5 elements, and adapting some stuff for whatever weapons they're using at the time). They learn what they need right away, but usually don't develop great ability unless they choose to study more in depth.

[B-Rad]

Military martial arts would be simple, fairly easy to learn, able to be taught quickly to large numbers of people. Anything with a lot of depth or complexity would be taught to smaller numbers of people over a longer period of time (like within a family or "clan"). Some schools did add material (like adding tons of additional forms) so they could string them along ($$$ or power motivation), and there's definitely been times where martial arts were used for performance long before modern wushu existed. People doing street performances due to not having any other real skills, periods where martial arts were banned, or ritualistic martial dances (like sword dances from ancient times).

[BlueTravesty]

....what??

What, indeed.

Some people on here would commit the fallacy of concluding that the "Masters" who fled the Communist Takeover -before the rise of Modern Wushu- would somehow not be tainted by its performance-only aesthetics. Some people would cite "facts" such as those masters being products of the same pre-communist generation that spawned the Nanking Guoshu Institute, which sponsored a martial arts curriculum to make the people strong, a fighting force the envy of the world! Such a narrow conception of linear time is laughable.

You see, the PRC became alarmed that traditional martial arts were being taught outside of China, since many masters of traditional martial arts fled to Hong Kong, Taiwan, Indonesia, Macao, etc. They had a hard time spreading Wushu to these countries- Taiwan vehemently opposed influence from the PRC, and Hong Kong was still under British Control. So what they did, is they came up with a solution- since their only agenda is to exterminate all REAL Chinese martial arts (mwahahahaha!) they needed a find a way to travel back in time, to poison the martial arts once and for all.

To do so, they consulted a 3-part documentary on time-travel called "Back To the Future." They initially tried to get a fleet of DeLorean time machines, however the decline of the DeLorean Motor Company (due in part to political instability in Northern Ireland) and the rather dismal performance of the Chinese economy made this a logistical impossibility.

However, they had other means. They genetically altered Modern Wushu players who could move faster than any person- 88 miles per hour, to be exact. Creating a hand-held version of the Flux Capacitor (cleverly disguised as Dao, Spear, Staff and Jian) they were able to send Modern Wushu players back in time to "Wushu-fy" Martial Arts, so that when the Communist Takeover finally occurred, the Traditional Martial Arts were already doomed.

However, the REAL Shaolin Masters knew of this plan while it was happening, and using Qigong, they were able to move themselves at 88 miles per hour, their enlightened minds acting as Flux Capacitors, to spread the FOR REAL Chinese Martial arts to the only place they would be safe: Indonesia.

See, it's all obvious. All that obviously-wushu-tainted stuff from Hong Kong and Taiwan is a bunch of performance-only crud.

Also, the Sun is cold, water is dry, and the sky is green on a clear day at noontime.

[B-Rad]

http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/be...007/3305-1.jpg

[The Xia]

LOL at those last two posts.

[BM2]

What, indeed.

Some people on here would commit the fallacy of concluding that the "Masters" who fled the Communist Takeover -before the rise of Modern Wushu- would somehow not be tainted by its performance-only aesthetics. Some people would cite "facts" such as those masters being products of the same pre-communist generation that spawned the Nanking Guoshu Institute, which sponsored a martial arts curriculum to make the people strong, a fighting force the envy of the world! Such a narrow conception of linear time is laughable.

You see, the PRC became alarmed that traditional martial arts were being taught outside of China, since many masters of traditional martial arts fled to Hong Kong, Taiwan, Indonesia, Macao, etc. They had a hard time spreading Wushu to these countries- Taiwan vehemently opposed influence from the PRC, and Hong Kong was still under British Control. So what they did, is they came up with a solution- since their only agenda is to exterminate all REAL Chinese martial arts (mwahahahaha!) they needed a find a way to travel back in time, to poison the martial arts once and for all.

To do so, they consulted a 3-part documentary on time-travel called "Back To the Future." They initially tried to get a fleet of DeLorean time machines, however the decline of the DeLorean Motor Company (due in part to political instability in Northern Ireland) and the rather dismal performance of the Chinese economy made this a logistical impossibility.

However, they had other means. They genetically altered Modern Wushu players who could move faster than any person- 88 miles per hour, to be exact. Creating a hand-held version of the Flux Capacitor (cleverly disguised as Dao, Spear, Staff and Jian) they were able to send Modern Wushu players back in time to "Wushu-fy" Martial Arts, so that when the Communist Takeover finally occurred, the Traditional Martial Arts were already doomed.

However, the REAL Shaolin Masters knew of this plan while it was happening, and using Qigong, they were able to move themselves at 88 miles per hour, their enlightened minds acting as Flux Capacitors, to spread the FOR REAL Chinese Martial arts to the only place they would be safe: Indonesia.

See, it's all obvious. All that obviously-wushu-tainted stuff from Hong Kong and Taiwan is a bunch of performance-only crud.

Also, the Sun is cold, water is dry, and the sky is green on a clear day at noontime.

****, I stopped reading after the third paragraph when it became apparant that the minutes I would waste out of my life reading further could never be replaced

[BlueTravesty]

http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/be...007/3305-1.jpg

ahhh, more corroborating evidence for the Conspiracy. I don't feel such is necessary- there is far too much evidence of its effects to deny. But the unbelievers may need more proof, and those weak in faith may need a reminder.

[BlueTravesty]

****, I stopped reading after the third paragraph when it became apparant that the minutes I would waste out of my life reading further could never be replaced

Some are ignorant of the Time-Traveling Modern Wushu Conspiracy and may need an outline/breakdown. You may already be aware of the Conspiracy, which is to the good. However, the world must know!!

[Mas Judt]

Shaolin wookie said:
No. We don't do it like karate guys. It looks different. There's a I-Chin-Ching breathing component to it. Now I'm not positive, and you'll have to take my word for it, but I'm pretty sure we do the form exactly like we're supposed to do it in our art....LOL.... What karate guys do is what they do. What we do is what we do. Man, you're a blockhead. Here's the gist of our San He Chien:

Take a stance that's a cross between a bow stance and a horse stance, set your weight low in a stable, very low stance with feet parallel, but staggered. Now, focus on your breathing, tensing every muscle in your body as you go through 3 patterns of hand movements 3 times, resetting your stance in between each one. Keep your back straight, don't force any motions in your body. Now prepare to be pushed, kicked, swept, and punched, and don't react, halt in breathing, or flinch. Also, make it last 3-5 minutes. It's a killer workout, great for breathing, great for stance, great for killing flinch complexes and keeping your balance.

Works for me. So it's genuine for me.

Reply: What you described does not resemble san chan Hakas style body-work. It has the harmful elements found in Karate misinterpretations. Saying it 'works for you', therefore 'it is genuine for you' is a logical fallacy that demonstrates, well an inability to construct a logical thought.

Shaolin wookie said:
Who gives a ****? It's mantis. You do it or you don't do it. You "You've got to do it just like this in this pattern, with this kind of motion" guys kill me. ****, if you punch or kick, poke around, and say you use a jade ring or a hook stance, it's mantis to me. Who gives a **** if it's northern or southern? Can I punch fast and on target? Yup. But oh, that's right, if I punch you in the SD way it doesn't hurt as much as if I hit someone in a northerly direction?

Reply: You do not understand the actual criticism, and therefore lash out with answers that demonstrate your own ignorance. Go with that. It suits you.

Shaolin wookie Said:
Because they're the only MA organization that teaches drunken boxing, which isn't that wushu BS--more like a dance routine. They didn't lie. They said they'd teach me drunken boxing, and if I work hard enough, they will. I already have a little bit of it.

Reply: Does it come with a patch?

Shaolin wookie wrote:
Watch out, if you keep repeating that you'll believe it sooner or later. Here, try this. It'll cool your throat. What is it? It's Kool Aid, my man. I've seen you rehash this one so many times I figure you've been drinking your own urine for too long and are starting to get brain damage.

Query: And your ability to just ignore the evidence before your eyes is pretty much what I'd expect from a true believer.

Shaolin Wookie wrote:
It was there to honor GM The', purchased by students. An Abbot came down to see it. He didn't donate it. But hell, there's a picture of the ol' geeza next to the stele, and it's sitting next to his rec room. If the old geeza didn't have a problem with it, what's your beef? I'm beginning to think you think you're the Shaolin Grandmaster.

REPLY: This was touted on all the SD websites and in press releases as 'an honor given by Shaolin Temple to GM The' - until you liars got called on it. Now it's the 500 yard back pedal.

Shaolin Wookie said:
You haven't seen wushu, have you? Oh, it's lost. I tried it once, and one of my friends has done it 6 years. He can't hang with me for 15 seconds, and he has 3X my experience....LOL. Sometimes I think it's SD's greatest attribute that it isn't typical CMA. At least hte guys I practice with can fight/box...whatever.

Reply: Again, a fairly ignorant response. Do you REALLY believe ALL martial arts in China (and Hong Kong and Taiwan) are modern Wushu? Do you still believe in Santa Claus? The Easter Bunny? Honestly, you need to get out more. See the world a little. Your mom won't mind, really.

Shaolin Wookie said:
I mean, seriously. If I can throw a roundhouse, a straight punch, a jab, a snap kick, a heel kick.....jesus, if I can land those in good combinations, who cares if it's Northern Mantis? Either you can hit someone or you can't. So if all you have to say is: When you pretend like you're a Northern Mantis you don't look buggy enough---sheeyat, man. Go get mantiddy witcha self.


REPLY:This response demonstrates very clearly what you don't know. You do not understand the actual criticism, and you demonstrate your ignorance clearly.
__________________

[Mas Judt]

TTM SAID:
Just out of curiosity, what makes you think that the way you all do CMA is the right way and the way that CSC and SD do it are wrong ??

REPLY: Overwhelming amounts of historical evidence versus a quaint legend.


TTM said:
Did you ever think that maybe you are wrong and that it might be some place in the middle??

Reply: No. Although you could parse things a bit by framing this differently, but it does not change the observations on SD just because there are other frauds.

TTM Said:
Or that SD does it the right way , for combat usage? Just a question.

Reply: That's the funniest thing I've heard in a while. Really, really funny.

Just for yucks - define 'combat usage' for me. And why SD 'is' and all other CMA is 'not.' Please elucidate.

[B-Rad]

Because they're the only MA organization that teaches drunken boxing, which isn't that wushu BS--more like a dance routine. They didn't lie. They said they'd teach me drunken boxing, and if I work hard enough, they will. I already have a little bit of it.

There's actually quite a few organizations that teach drunken boxing. Lau family drunken boxing, some Mei Hua guys, I think some of the Choy Lay Fut schools, etc. Seen Shaolin-Do's drunken boxing... can't really say it looked any better than the "wushu BS" you hate so much though. Was still kind of dancey, though without some of the more athletic technique (and performed slower, weaker, and stiffer of course). The usual stumbling around, a couple basic kicks and so on. Wouldn't mind seeing a vid again though, as it's been so long... this was back when TWS was a die hard Shaolin-Do proponent and I still had two healthy knees Man, I've been on this forum too long, lol.

[brucereiter]

There's actually quite a few organizations that teach drunken boxing. Lau family drunken boxing, some Mei Hua guys, I think some of the Choy Lay Fut schools, etc. Seen Shaolin-Do's drunken boxing... can't really say it looked any better than the "wushu BS" you hate so much though. Was still kind of dancey, though without some of the more athletic technique (and performed slower, weaker, and stiffer of course). The usual stumbling around, a couple basic kicks and so on. Wouldn't mind seeing a vid again though, as it's been so long... this was back when TWS was a die hard Shaolin-Do proponent and I still had two healthy knees Man, I've been on this forum too long, lol.

here are 2 examples of "drunken kung fu" from shaolin do.
drunken spear:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=h55byqy9NbM
the person performing is 6'2"ish and at least 230lbs ... so he may not move in the way a 130lbs 5'5" tall chinese man would ...

Lan Cha He - Flexible Drunken Immortal:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nwLrwRefi-c&feature=related
the person performing is 6 and a half feet tall so he will never look like a 130lbs 5'5" tall
chinese person

[brucereiter]

Shaolin Wookie wrote:
It was there to honor GM The', purchased by students. An Abbot came down to see it. He didn't donate it. But hell, there's a picture of the ol' geeza next to the stele, and it's sitting next to his rec room. If the old geeza didn't have a problem with it, what's your beef? I'm beginning to think you think you're the Shaolin Grandmaster.

REPLY: This was touted on all the SD websites and in press releases as 'an honor given by Shaolin Temple to GM The' - until you liars got called on it. Now it's the 500 yard back pedal.

this is how it was implied from my point of view ... to me it seemed like i was told/read that the shaolin temple gave it to gmt to honor him ... not that sd students bought it to honor him. there were some top monks there though suxi and deyang they are 2 people i would love to meet no chane to meet suxi now though rip ...

best

bruce

[tattooedmonk]

meaning the martial applications and intent were removed for teaching the masses.

[Mas Judt]

TTM - Yes, for modern wushu - the Taolu practice - this is true. But ity is not true of the vast amount of TCMA still found in the PRC, Hong Hong, Taiwan, etc.

There is overwhelming evidence that a.) SD does not look different because it is the 'old, combat version.' - not true. The old fighting versions of many of the styles SD claim exist still in China - and the 'real, old fighting methods' - do not resemble the SD methods.

I'd agree they are 'SD' versions of these things, but it the lie that the SD version is the 'better' 'old combat style' that 'does not exist anymore in China' is woefully ignorant.

The SD version is certainly unique, I'll give it that. But anything good in the style is given a black mark by such obvious lies.

Although, to be fair - I'll point out, this particular lie (CMA not existing in China) is a common one among teachers from Indonesia/Malaysia.