Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Shaolin Wookie]

Let's see:

1. GM The' is Grandmaster of Shaolin-Do.
2. GM The' isn't a ranking dignitary at Shaolin.
3. Shaolin-Do is really "Central Plains Shaolin" from Bandung Indonesia.
4. Shaolin Ssu didn't give him the stele. His students did.
5. Lots of what Shaolin-Do does is different from the norm, if nothing more than cosmetically.
6. Mas Judt can't accept these facts, so he cloaks them in conspiracy and beeyotches and whines about them like a....well....whiny little conspiracy-theory beeyatch.


Hmmmmm......I'm here to find out more about Shaolin Do and to get a better understanding of what it is and what it isn't.

Mas Judt is here harping about hte "GREAT LIE" behind it all, and refuses to accept new information, or to simply accept that the "GREAT LIE" is shattered, and really isn't that big of a deal because I throw a straight punch like you (mine's probably straighter, though) and kick pretty d@mn hard (mine's probably more d@mned, though). So, he drinks his Kool-Aid (proper spelling for mrkiii and Mas Judt, and I should know, because clearly I'm drinking it every day) and reiterates the same points, mostly because he doesn't have any real ones, and isn't capable of saying something someone else hasn't said yet, so he continues on....and on.....and on......trying desperately to cast SD in the mould it has already broken out of. The GREAT LIE was....and is.....a MARKETING PITCH!

*Gasp*

OH, Shaolin Wookie! You're so smart. Thank you for enlightening me. But is Shaolin Do really Shaolin? I mean, for really real?

[kwaichang]

I didnt say that I said I believe what I believe period. I know what I know and have seen I have not said Real Kung fu isnt in China I do know many of the Masters left China for other places after the Communist take over and during the purge. But no matter I had a good work out today and feel good about it and I am happy and what I do is what I do and it takes too long to explain all that I know so that is it. But you are so adamant about projecting that you are right I guess you know every thing. But all that you know was taught to you by someone who may also be wrong as well. no matter the more you rant and rave the less people listen. KC

[Mas Judt]

Your pretty good with the revisionist history, Shaolin Wookie. The websites and videos and PR from SD offer a different story - what you call 'marketing' would be called 'fraud' in any other endeavor. The facts are simple, you only present honest information because the SD organization did not offer anything but the party line until presented with actual facts. I hope your folks can work on being more honest moving forward. It would help your cause a lot.

But of course, SD has yet to respond to the stunning amount of evidence that refutes their claims that there are no 'martial' CMA in the PRC, Taiwan or Hong Kong.

The good news is, your inability to understand the technical things I allude to simply makes my point very clear. So keep at it. What you don't know speaks volumes.

[kungfujunky]

i have NEVER been told that there is no martial cma in china.

never. not once.

[kungfujunky]

one other thing before bed here.

mas you ALLUDE to a lot without actually coming out with empirical evidence to back up your allusions.


what exactly are your points of contention and what proof do you have to back that up?

and dont do the deflecting routine you like to do saying "ive already said that blah blah blah" youve said a lot on here without saying much.

so please in one concise post make your case for all of your points of contention so we can either refute your claims with our own proof or eat bitter and accept that there might be more to the story than what we have been told.

[Shaolin Wookie]

The good news is, your inability to understand the technical things I allude to simply makes my point very clear. So keep at it. What you don't know speaks volumes.

Lol....you know all about SD.....from second and third-hand accounts (at best, and I'm being very kind in granting you this much source-work). So, you're not speaking from experience, from having spoken with its masters, or from having taken classes at SD and elsewhere.

You're "frontin'" speaks volumes. Only, when I read it, it says: "Hey, My Name Is: Mas Judt. I think I'm an authority on all issues SD because I've read some stuff on the web and I've formed a picture from this. No, I don't actually have real knowledge of the art, but that doesn't matter. It's the principle of gnosis--knowledge is out there, floating around, and I can tap into it with my meditation abilities. And by the way, be careful how you read this. If you read it wrong, utilizing SD's looking-principles, your eyes will fall out of your head and your ear drums will pop. How do I know this? Because I do."

What you refert to as "revisionist history" is not quite Bowdlerizing it, because I'm not glossing over its negative aspects. I'm looking for the truth behind the stories, and you're focused on the storyteller because, at base, you don't really care one way or the other as long as you can bash SD.

[BM2]

[QUOTE=Shaolin Wookie;829023]Let's see:

4. Shaolin Ssu didn't give him the stele. His students did.



I didn't think it would be as soon as the next page that this would come up again.

[Seppukku]

I'm new to the world of Kung Fu and have a questions? Does anyone know the shortest route from South Central L.A. to Arco arena? I have tickets for the Kings game.

[Mas Judt]

SW - go back to page 1 then start reading. I am not the one here with anything to answer for, nor the one making wacky claims.

You may feel that your answers are adequate - some of them are by themselves - but the organization as a whole still spews the same mistruths. Just because you can parse through it, does not mean it is right to use falsehoods to recruit people who don't know any better.

[Shaolin Wookie]

White lies...mistruths spread for the sake of recruitment, money, prospects--dude, it's the stock and trade of every MA school in existence (don't even get me started on that Wing Chun school....LOL). It's all sensationalized, because MA schools are incredibly fickle and chancy business enterprises. HEy, SD's pitch works well. There's a lot of our schools. I say, stick with the marketing that has worked and still does. Untruth? Sure, kind of like the ones on MacDonald's and Burger King menus (the pictures, I mean).

I still don't see what the deal is, unless you're trying to copyright something. Really, I wanted to learn how to fight and do drunken boxing. GM The' "ORIGINAL SHAOLIN GANGSTA!"...eh...I don't care. Does he know his stuff? Yup. He could beat the living crap out of me. And from his students I can learn both how to fight and drunken boxing, but have to do all the other stuff too (and much of the stuff I didn't like ended up being the most useful). Who cares if it's Shaolin? I don't. Whether or not it's the real I Chin Ching, well, a one handed pushup with ankles crossed, or a freestanding handstand pushup--****, it's hard no matter if it's "THE ORIGINAL SHAOLIN" (tm) or not. LOL.....I didn't know there was such a thing as a "cookie-cutter" form spread throughout the CMA world when I started. Or that there was such a thing as a Shaolin-way-to-do-things rather than just a Shaolin Way as a concept. I think you guys are incredibly close-minded, and not the open-minded scions of MA knowledge you think you are.

As has been shown, however, I am an idiot, and I have no idea what I'm talking about. I drink Kool-Aid because I don't have a mind of my own, not because I like the taste.

[BlueTravesty]

There have been Blanket statements, half-hearted non-rebuttals, and gross generalizations on both sides (including this very sentence )

I'll paraphrase arguments for and against on this forum, ranging for the insightful to the insipid.

Valid argument against: "Shaolin-Do's claims and supposed History are dubious at best, and horrendous marketing ploys at worst. Sin The' may only be claiming the title of Grandmaster of SD, but some of the promotional material makes it look as though he's claiming to be Grandmaster of Shaolin as a whole. Also, it is impossible to swim with just your pectorals. Perhaps a mistranslation is afoot?"

Decent argument against: "SD's claims seem somewhat disingenuous. I feel it is wrong to mislead people who pay good money for a martial arts class. Also, it is impossible to swim using only your pectorals. Sin The' may be a grandmaster of SD, but does not represent Shaolin in general."

Stupid argument against: "SD's claims are boldfaced lies told so that Sin The' can steal money from people. The people who believe such things should not have to take responsibility for not doing their homework before looking for a martial arts school."

Stupider argument against: "SD IS A LIE!!! A LIE!!! YOU ARE ALL SHEEP! I HOLD EACH OF YOU PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE OUTLANDISH CLAIMS THAT SD WEBSITES MAKE!! Sin The' SHOULD BE SUED FOR CLAIMING TO BE THE ABBOT OF THE SHAOLIN TEMPLE!"

Valid Counter-argument: "I find the claims dubious as well, but the style fits me. I like the class environment I'm in, I like my instructor, and I can make it work under pressure. I agree that Sin The' is a Grandmaster only of Shaolin-Do. And though it doesn't justify the outlandish claims of SD, many CMA styles and lineages feature exaggerated legends."

Decent Counterargument: "I don't really care about the history, I like training in SD. Sin The' is not a grandmaster of Shaolin, just SD. Besides, your lineage probably has a fair bit of fabrication too. Glass houses and all that."

Stupid Counter-Argument: "OH YEAH? OH YEAH? WELL YOUR STYLE PROBABLY HAS A MADE-UP HISTORY TOO, SO THAT TOTALLY JUSTIFIES IT! SD IS THE LAST REAL SHAOLIN, THEREFORE HE IS YOUR GRANDMASTER!! BOW, YOU WORMS!"

Stupider Counter-Argument: "Sin The' believes it because that's what's taught to him. Therefore it's ok that he ignores/is never told the valid points brought up by others about why these claims are dubious, and he is therefore not lying."

Do-You-Have-A-Brain-At-All? Argument: "I believe it's all literally true. SD is real authentic Shaolin, unlike the wushu travesty at the temple now, and Sin The' is its master."

[brucereiter]

...

thoughtful post bluetravesty ...

[BlueTravesty]

thoughtful post bluetravesty ...

Thanks
...
Someday, I shall earn the coveted fourth dot

[BM2]

Merry Christmas everyone

[brucereiter]

Thanks
...
Someday, I shall earn the coveted fourth dot

... .... :-)