View Poll Results: What to do about the 'Is Shaolin-Do for real?' thread

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  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts!

    22 38.60%
  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Let all the S-D threads stand independently.

    13 22.81%
  • Keep IS-Dfr locked down. All IS-Dfr posters deserved to be punished.

    5 8.77%
  • Delete them all. Let Yama sort them out.

    17 29.82%
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Thread: Is Shaolin-Do for real?

  1. An elder master from the east was willing to take a break away student in CO under his tutelage and let him open a school.

    The soards pitched a fit and The kicked said student out despite the assurances of another of The's high ranking students. The said to the 8th degree in the east that if he allowed it the Soards would quit him so he just couldn't do it....tell me how that fits with what you are saying

    The Soards have never learned the hua 2 person sets from The nor anyone else in SD. They copied them from youtube. And I am sure they have done that with a bunch of other material they teach.

  2. #19337

    Soards

    Aren't the Soards down only to a few loyal schools now? How can they afford to pay Sin The so much?

  3. I have proof they got it from youtube.

  4. #19339
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    Regarding Master Mullins

    I started training under him in 2000. I had obtained my first degree in Virginia from another teacher, quit training once that teacher died and while I was in law school, and found his eldest son was teaching close to where I lived, so I went to his class. As a result, I came under the Mullins' teaching through my 4th degree when I got burnt out and stopped training due to time constraints and nagging injuries.

    I don't know all the dirty laundry in the system and what happened with Mullins before I started training with him, but I can comment on my experiences with him while I trained with him. In my opinion, he is a very talented martial artist. He doesn't ask his students to do anything that he can't do himself. He works as hard as any person I've seen in his training. He always had the utmost respect for Sin The. Before all this happened with the Soards I even heard him tell a student that was moving west to luck up a school under the Soards. When I came along, there was tension between most of the schools under Master Leonard and Master Mullins with a lot of it being Mullins' decision to stop wearing gis. I know that there was a difference of opinion between Mullins and Leonard about a lot of things, but I never heard Mullins disparage Leonard's ability as a martial artist. There was respect in that aspect of their relationship.

    Having said all of that, Mullins is a human like the rest of us, and there were things I heard or saw that I didn't agree with, but it was not the stuff that you describe. Sure he has an ego, we all do to one degree or another, but it was not unreasonable. He was also very humble and complimentary of his contemporaries. He was not greedy and while he taught for a living, he did not force students to take extra classes to advance or regularly teach seminars or "festival forms" for extra money. The teaching of extra material in a seminar was rare.

    As far as how he treated his students, he was an excellent teacher and always appropriate. There were several female students in his class, or the classes of his sons, and I was friends with most of them and I never saw anything inappropriate or heard of it from any student.

    "themindreader" I'm not trying to debate you or discredit anything you have posted, because I was not part of the system, or a student of Master Mullins, at that time. I have a different understanding of the Van Over situation, but all I know is second-hand. Even if everything you said is true, who you describe is not the teacher I knew and trained under for over 9 years. If he was the person you describe, then he has grown as a person. Lord knows I would hate for my youthful indiscretions to follow me forever.

    I honestly believe that Master Mullins is one of the best teachers in the system and I probably wouldn't have stayed as long as I did but for him and his sons teaching and martial abilities.

    I wonder who "themindreader" is and what his agenda is? Anonymity is one's right on a forum I suppose, but it always makes one's opinions and motivations suspect.
    Last edited by Judge Pen; 09-24-2013 at 06:55 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  5. The Soards do not tell the truth about much.....
    Last edited by kungfujunky; 09-23-2013 at 03:01 PM. Reason: removed pic. msg me for the pic

  6. #19341
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    The soards pitched a fit and The kicked said student out despite the assurances of another of The's high ranking students. The said to the 8th degree in the east that if he allowed it the Soards would quit him so he just couldn't do it....tell me how that fits with what you are saying
    straight up CULT sh1t!!!!!!
    I'm pretty sure the only thing tongs do nowadays is make sure Chinese restaurants don't pay out tips to their waiters. - Pazman[/B]

    https://scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/...8a&oe=52848D36

  7. #19342
    Quote Originally Posted by bodhi warrior View Post
    Didn't Hamilton win his case with the help of Hiang?
    Yes i am sure he did but he didn't need the help.

  8. #19343
    Quote Originally Posted by kungfujunky View Post
    LOL what a joke. This has been tried with the support of another elder master. The did what the Soards said despite trying to follow this farce of a process. Period.

    He caters to the money the soards pay him. He would rather lose multiple high level students than the soards because they pay him more. That is the truth of it. Where is the integrity in that?

    What about the soards learning material from YouTube and teaching that out? Why doesn't The say something about that? Probably because they share it with him that's why.
    Sin The wants to keep it all. He wants to keep as many teaching as possible. The only way someone is kicked out is if they leave and continue to teach as Hamiliton etc. From the court documents if that is who you are referring, MR mace was out because he stopped letting Sin Test. When you stop letting sin the collect his fee and continue to teach your are kicked out.

    The soards are lame everyone in Shaolin Do knows it, the HUA two man set was taught out 20+ years ago so the Soards could have learned it then but I believe Sin the originally got if from a book.

  9. #19344
    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Pen View Post
    I started training under him in 2000. I had obtained my first degree in Virginia from another teacher, quit training once that teacher died and while I was in law school, and found his eldest son was teaching close to where I lived, so I went to his class. As a result, I came under the Mullins' teaching through my 4th degree when I got burnt out and stopped training due to time constraints and nagging injuries.

    I don't know all the dirty laundry in the system and what happened with Mullins before I started training with him, but I can comment on my experiences with him while I trained with him. In my opinion, he is a very talented martial artist. He doesn't ask his students to do anything that he can't do himself. He works as hard as any person I've seen in his training. He always had the utmost respect for Sin The. Before all this happened with the Soards I even heard him tell a student that was moving west to luck up a school under the Soards. When I came along, there was tension between most of the schools under Master Leonard and Master Mullins with a lot of it being Mullins' decision to stop wearing gis. I know that there was a difference of opinion between Mullins and Leonard about a lot of things, but I never heard Mullins disparage Leonard's ability as a martial artist. There was respect in that aspect of their relationship.

    Having said all of that, Mullins is a human like the rest of us, and there were things I heard or saw that I didn't agree with, but it was not the stuff that you describe. Sure he has an ego, we all do to one degree or another, but it was not unreasonable. He was also very humble and complimentary of his contemporaries. He was not greedy and while he taught for a living, he did not force students to take extra classes to advance or regularly teach seminars or "festival forms" for extra money. The teaching of extra material in a seminar was rare.

    As far as how he treated his students, he was an excellent teacher and always appropriate. There were several female students in his class, or the classes of his sons, and I was friends with most of them and I never saw anything inappropriate or heard of it from any student.

    "themindreader" I'm not trying to debate you or discredit anything you have posted, because I was not part of the system, or a student of Master Mullins, at that time. I have a different understanding of the Van Over situation, but all I know is second-hand. Even if everything you said is true, who you describe is not the teacher I knew and trained under for over 9 years. If he was the person you describe, then he has grown as a person. Lord knows I would hate for my youthful indiscretions to follow me forever.

    I honestly believe that Master Mullins is one of the best teachers in the system and I probably wouldn't have stayed as long as I did but for him and his sons teaching and martial abilities.

    I wonder who "themindreader" is and what his agenda is? Anonymity is one's right on a forum I suppose, but it always makes one's opinions and motivations suspect.
    I wouldn't let my wife or daughter alone with Mullins that is all I can say. Mullins is very likable but so was Ted Bundy. My point is that he is leaving for ego and greed and not because he finds what the Soards did unethical.

    I have no agenda except that I was appauled when someone said Mullins saw the light and found the soards and sin the unethical and couldnt be associated that was unbelieveable.

    What Mullins did in KY before we left was probably a lot worse than what the Soards have done plain and simple.

    I am a high ranking ex shaolin teacher that has know these folks for 28 years. I was a student of most of all of the people we've been discussing and trained with Sin The for years. I understand their motivations.

    The folks leaving Sin The are fooling themselves they would be better off completely away from Mullins.

  10. #19345
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    As the one who stated he saw the light "so to speak" let me say this

    First and foremost our school is completely independent of both The and Mullins. As soon as the scandal started, my instructor broke away. Much like Judge Pen, I can only speak from my personal experiences with him, and offered my opinions based on that experience. You obviously have much more history with the organization and were privy to much more info than us noobs. Its amazing how much gets swept under the rug with SD. While I am not totally blind to how things are, I have not personally witnessed any of this first hand.

    My point in the previous post was the latest accusations, from my understanding of what is being accused, against the Soards was the last straw because of the magnitude. Kind of an honor among thieves if you will. Some things can be overlooked, some not so much. I will not disclose the details, as I cannot validate any of it, but I am sure it will be public soon enough. Was there ego and money involved in the decision? I have no doubt. But I also stand by my statement that they will be better off independent of SD. Simply because I believe this will be an opportunity for growth for them. Now whether or not they chose to do so, we shall see, but I wish the best for them, as I would anyone else.
    Learn more ways to preserve rather than destroy. Avoid rather than check. Check rather than hurt. Hurt rather than maim. Maim rather than kill. For all life is precious nor can any be replaced.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by themindreader View Post
    Sin The wants to keep it all. He wants to keep as many teaching as possible. The only way someone is kicked out is if they leave and continue to teach as Hamiliton etc. From the court documents if that is who you are referring, MR mace was out because he stopped letting Sin Test. When you stop letting sin the collect his fee and continue to teach your are kicked out.
    Not referring to Mace.

    This situation flies in the face of what you are saying as Sin himself stated what I previously said.

    David and Sharon wont like this and if I approve they will leave me and I cant have that.

  12. #19347
    David and Sharon wont like this and if I approve they will leave me and I cant have that.
    is this because you don't want to lose that money? if not, why can't you have that???????

  13. #19348
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    Quote Originally Posted by themindreader View Post
    I wouldn't let my wife or daughter alone with Mullins that is all I can say. Mullins is very likable but so was Ted Bundy. My point is that he is leaving for ego and greed and not because he finds what the Soards did unethical.

    I have no agenda except that I was appauled when someone said Mullins saw the light and found the soards and sin the unethical and couldnt be associated that was unbelieveable.

    What Mullins did in KY before we left was probably a lot worse than what the Soards have done plain and simple.

    I am a high ranking ex shaolin teacher that has know these folks for 28 years. I was a student of most of all of the people we've been discussing and trained with Sin The for years. I understand their motivations.

    The folks leaving Sin The are fooling themselves they would be better off completely away from Mullins.
    Like I said, your experience with him, in the distant past, was different than mine from 2000 to 2009. During that time, I was one of his highest ranking students, and close friends with his oldest son (who is one of the best people I've ever met btw) and I never experienced anything that you describe. Maybe it was that way in the past, I can't say as I wasn't there, but he is not the same person you describe now. People can learn from their mistakes; and be humbled by them too.

    I think it is unfair to judge his motivations for leaving based on what you knew of the past, and not based on where he is now. And I think it is unfair to compare a teacher who plead to a crime to one who was not prosecuted or convicted of one.
    Last edited by Judge Pen; 09-25-2013 at 10:12 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  14. #19349
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    As I recall....

    When the first Soard sex scandal happened, there were several teachers under the Soards that left. Following their decision to leave, there were reports that they were contacted by Sin The and told they were kicked out of the system at the request of David Soard. (I think a copy of one of the letters was even posted here on the forum). As I understand it, Masters Grooms and Mullins then approached Sin The and those schools were allowed to remain in the system under Mullins and Grooms. Jake "Mace" was one of those teachers, but he wanted to go out on his own. All this was happening about the time I was stopping my training, but one could easily go back to this thread, circa 2009, and read that information as it was developing.

    Does anyone else have a similar, or different, recollection of these events?
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  15. #19350
    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Pen View Post
    When the first Soard sex scandal happened, there were several teachers under the Soards that left. Following their decision to leave, there were reports that they were contacted by Sin The and told they were kicked out of the system at the request of David Soard. (I think a copy of one of the letters was even posted here on the forum). As I understand it, Masters Grooms and Mullins then approached Sin The and those schools were allowed to remain in the system under Mullins and Grooms. Jake "Mace" was one of those teachers, but he wanted to go out on his own. All this was happening about the time I was stopping my training, but one could easily go back to this thread, circa 2009, and read that information as it was developing.

    Does anyone else have a similar, or different, recollection of these events?
    I don't believe they were kicked out because the Soards requested it, they would be kicked out because they left shaolin do and continued to teach preventing Sin The from collecting fees.

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