Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[kwaichang]

I have tapes of Grand Champions and Master demos but do not have permission to post so I wont. But I will swear I have many in my possession of GMT EML EMM and others that would put what I have seen from the posted SD and others to shame. KC

[Yao Sing]

I have tapes of Grand Champions and Master demos but do not have permission to post so I wont. But I will swear I have many in my possession of GMT EML EMM and others that would put what I have seen from the posted SD and others to shame. KC

And there lies the problem. How do you convince outsiders when you can't show the proof?

But then are we expected to just take your word for it? From what I've seen the only ones saying they're really good are SD insiders. Nobody outside of SD is claiming great skill from any of the SD masters.

So look at it from our viewpoint and what do you see?

No physical evidence of the lineage claimed.
No video evidence of high skill level by top SD practitioners.
No corroborating evidence of either from an outside source.
No evidence of intimate knowledge of the claimed styles.

Shaolin people say it isn't Shaolin but we are to believe they are all wrong and SD is the true Shaolin but unfortunately there's not a shred of evidence.

Is Sin The accepted by other CMA masters? They seem to to stick together into a few circles of friends. Which masters are willing to vouch for his skills? Just curious.

[kwaichang]

If you saw what I had even if it was "good" you and others would still find fault etc etc. Also the opinion of a few armchair MA who want to be a judge but are not willing to give the open mind needed to be one is of no concern, this is like watching boxing we can always say I would have done this but until you are being punched in the face you have no Idea what you would do. I could post me and the form could be perfect and someone would say well it should have been this or the flavor was wrong . Think what you want it doesnt matter. KC

[kwaichang]

The jealousy that exists in CMA from Master to Master is well known I do know there are some who consider GMT the real deal BQL can prob give the names I cant. KC

[Shaolin Wookie]

Ummm.... I'm not an SD student. I have never studied SD/CSC. Put the crack down. You seem to be confusing me with TTM.

Yeah....I read that earlier and had a big WTF? moment.

[Shaolin Wookie]

I have tapes of Grand Champions and Master demos but do not have permission to post so I wont. But I will swear I have many in my possession of GMT EML EMM and others that would put what I have seen from the posted SD and others to shame. KC

Just out of curiosity, why not? I understand the permission thing, but why would they deny? I've seen vids of some of the best here in ATL on Sr. Master Gary's Youtube channel.....why would any of those guys up there care? I caught a glimpse of GM The in action.....it was impressive enough. Why would he care?

[kwaichang]

Do You Have Pics Of Your Girl Friend Nude ??? Even If She Looked Like Halle Berry You Prob Wouldnt Post Them Because Of Reprocussions , Lorena Bobbit Comes To Mind. Sorry For The Caps Kc

[Mas Judt]

I really doubt Sin The' has anything to teach Master Killer that would matter to him one bit.

[Yao Sing]

If you saw what I had even if it was "good" you and others would still find fault etc etc. Also the opinion of a few armchair MA who want to be a judge but are not willing to give the open mind needed to be one is of no concern, this is like watching boxing we can always say I would have done this but until you are being punched in the face you have no Idea what you would do. I could post me and the form could be perfect and someone would say well it should have been this or the flavor was wrong . Think what you want it doesnt matter. KC

You're operating on an awful lot of assumptions.

First off, I haven't judged anyone's skill level SD or other. Most likely I would not judge the skill leel of whatever video you showed. I do take into consideration the comments by others that sound knowledgeable enough to speak up.

So basically you're afraid the opinions won't be favorable. Do you think anyone is so good they're beyond fault? Oh right, Sin The is the epitome of perfection. We're just not worthy enough to witness it.

And no, it's not like watching boxing and saying 'I would have done this or that'. It's like watching someone and estimating their skill based on a limited video.

I'm going to call you on the perfect form you're claiming you can post. If others with verifiable background can find fault in it then I guess it isn't perfect now is it?

But please go ahead and post that perfect form unless you fear criticism that much. JP managed to survive the onslaught and actually got props for being more than just talk. In fact I believe there were some good, positive comments.

[brucereiter]

Seriously, what would you think of a school with hundreds of students, who knows how many instructor level practitioners, and decades in business that can't produce one video clip representative of the skill (to date all known video has been claimed as being not the true skill level, no offense JP) or placing in a non-SD only event?

Until then we'll just have to believe that the available video IS representative of the skill level of the more 'advanced' SD practitioners and it doesn't get much better than what we see.

Just putting things in perspective.

hi yao sing,

i have never competed in any martial arts "event" and likely never will as i have no interest in that aspect of martial arts.

you say the available video is representative of the skill level of the more advanced sd practitioners and it does not get much better than that i dont know if you are looking at everything that is available ...

here are several examples of shaolin do material that i have posted here many times. i make no claims of mastery but i know i have some insight into ima. none of my clips represent anything extraordinary but i think there is ima skill demonstrated and these are skills i learned in the art of shaolin do.

yang tai chi chuan "64" form
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9nJ3vwcR1EQ

chen xin jia 83
http://youtube.com/watch?v=15ZKEig-Osw

hsingi "5 roads" or 5 elements beng chuan
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8x6er4aobuc

classical pakua chang aka jiang rong qiao "original" pakua chang
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tKOjfBuc5TA

some push hands practice
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9L9atX7yAFs
http://youtube.com/watch?v=lJgfVy5Cqe0

striking drills
http://youtube.com/watch?v=G_jajtX-2po

here is my youtube channel. there are several clips of some of the training i do.
http://youtube.com/profile?user=brucereiter

here is a clip from my teacher about his tai chi chuan dvd's ...
http://youtube.com/user/srmastergarygrooms

you can also see a few more clips on his youtube channel of some external stuff.

i do not know your background or skill level ... but you seem to make blanket statements about our system. i have been to ima schools al over the world and have found my understanding and skill level to be as good as most and better than some but at least on track.

look around on youtube and you will find thousands of videos that show all types of understanding, expression and skill level from the finest and most well known groups.
i think you and others are being unfair with many of your statements regarding shaolin do.

any of the naysayers that would like to post videos of them doing their martial arts would be fantastic to see. i think it might help people in shaolin do know where you are coming from with your critiques of shaolin do skill level, material and performances

best,

bruce

[bodhi warrior]

I was on myspace today and did a search for shaolindo and found some nice vids. I don't know how to post a link here. Maybe one of you other guys can.
The ground dragon guy looks pretty good.

[brucereiter]

I hear people complain that they don't feel they get the depth they'd like, but it's generally b/c once they move up a rank, they cease going to lower belt classes, and so their material never develops.

wookie,

that is good that you have made this observation. you cant imagine how many times i invite people to come back to level one yang tai chi chuan class but they never show up again since they have done their 6 months to learn the form and a few drills and applications and think they know tai chi chuan. always go back to the basics.

best,

bruce

[kwaichang]

The Ground Dragon is pretty good that guy is hyper KC

[brucereiter]

BTW, I'm not anti-SD. I really don't care that much but when you look at what's presented it becomes fairly obvious.

what becomes obvious?

[DPL]

I was on myspace today and did a search for shaolindo and found some nice vids. I don't know how to post a link here. Maybe one of you other guys can.
The ground dragon guy looks pretty good.

Is this the one you're talking about?