Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[BoulderDawg]

didnt you quit bdawg?
you said you were going to.....
and the the brothers squabble was silly and is over. they've agreed to disagree and ignore the other.
end of story. its not our business....just like its not our business if you got in a fight with your family.
has nothing to do with kung fu

I haven't participated in CSC for almost a year now. But I still have friends there and one of them told me about this. Even though I'm no longer involved it's interesting to discuss and debate SLD.

I have no problem with keeping family disagreements private but in this case I think the brother's rift effects the way each tells the history of their art. To totally ignore the exsistance of each other just because of their family problems is silly.
Although they may hate each other both contributed to the formation of modern SLD and should be recognized as part of the lineage.

[BM2]

smg told me a story about gmt and his brother master hiang having a disagreement about a hand position in a form (i.e. one said it was a fist the other said it was a open palm)
they contacted ggm ie and from what i understand the brothers we admonished for the disagreement they had as a waste of time saying both were "correct" it depends on what you are going to do with it as to which one you chose ...
(i am retelling a story so i may have confused facts ... :-) )

this leads me to a few questions:

-should students do the form the exact same way as their teacher?

-at what point in ones training can you make a decision to perform or apply a form with your own understanding vs. trying to have your teachers understanding?

-should the forms in our system be dynamic so they can adapt to different people with different skiil set/needs/attributes ...

or

-should the forms in our system be done exactly as they are taught to preserve them as they were many years ago? like a library.

Ok, let me to tell you first hand what GMT said once in class. He said that he was teaching a class when a student said " When you taught this last year it was a head block with a closed fist and now you are showing it as a head block with an open hand, which is it?"
GMT replied that it was just a head block, do it how ever you want. He then told the class that the guy was missing the real part which was the strike that went with the block but was focused on how you hold your hand during the block. He added that Master Ie would also would show things differently sometimes and that no one ever said anything but did it the new way.

[QUOTE=shaolindoiscool;811170]this leads me to a few questions:

-should students do the form the exact same way as their teacher?

Master Hiang said he didn't want us to be like robots ( he actually said R2D2 ) as we all can not do things exactly the same. However he had the length of time it should take to do the forms. He felt that some try to rush through them to be the first one to finish.

[kwaichang]

Thanks I do believe GMT I will TELL YOU WHY.
1. If he teaches a form we typically get a written verse of the form.
2. It is in Chinese and English
3. The history is usually included as well as the founders name etc.
4. I take that info and google or what ever it and check the history.
5. I see how the GMT story coordinates with the "Historic" view.
6. I list discrepancies if any.
7. I assess whether the discrepancies have merit, for example was it a date or founders name etc.
8. I alot a score of accuracy is 80% correct or 99% correct ?
9. After all this I check for the Shaolin connection.
How many of you guys who do real CMA do this or do your teachers drop a name and you believe it.
So if I am a "believer" after all of what I do then I guess I am. Likewise I alot the form a number 1=5 for difficulty and train on it when I train on other forms less in the number system this way I can keep most of my material up to date.
If all this adds up and the form is usable for example I find the Mantis and Tigers mor applicable than Budha Fist then I assume or know "you guys choose which word to use" it is the real deal. I dont care that the Flavor or fluidity is missing I know with time it will occur. Probably not to you guys standards though. KC

[Shaolin Wookie]

didnt you quit bdawg?

you said you were going to.....

and the the brothers squabble was silly and is over. they've agreed to disagree and ignore the other.

end of story. its not our business....just like its not our business if you got in a fight with your family.

has nothing to do with kung fu

Exactly. It might have been martially related, but I'm sure there were factors many of us do not know about that were not martially related, and we ought to let it lie simply out of respect.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Ok, let me to tell you first hand what GMT said once in class. He said that he was teaching a class when a student said " When you taught this last year it was a head block with a closed fist and now you are showing it as a head block with an open hand, which is it?"
GMT replied that it was just a head block, do it how ever you want. He then told the class that the guy was missing the real part which was the strike that went with the block but was focused on how you hold your hand during the block. He added that Master Ie would also would show things differently sometimes and that no one ever said anything but did it the new way.

this leads me to a few questions:

-should students do the form the exact same way as their teacher?

Master Hiang said he didn't want us to be like robots ( he actually said R2D2 ) as we all can not do things exactly the same. However he had the length of time it should take to do the forms. He felt that some try to rush through them to be the first one to finish.

That's what my teacher basically tells me, often when I ask some question about angles, timing, hand position--it's the "what exactly are you doing?" kind of response that forces you to evaluate the motion. While it might not lead to general conformity in terms of form--the little details, anyways--**** me if it doesn't make you think....LOL.....

[Shaolin Wookie]

Thanks I do believe GMT I will TELL YOU WHY.
1. If he teaches a form we typically get a written verse of the form.
2. It is in Chinese and English
3. The history is usually included as well as the founders name etc.
4. I take that info and google or what ever it and check the history.
5. I see how the GMT story coordinates with the "Historic" view.
6. I list discrepancies if any.
7. I assess whether the discrepancies have merit, for example was it a date or founders name etc.
8. I alot a score of accuracy is 80% correct or 99% correct ?
9. After all this I check for the Shaolin connection.
How many of you guys who do real CMA do this or do your teachers drop a name and you believe it.
So if I am a "believer" after all of what I do then I guess I am. Likewise I alot the form a number 1=5 for difficulty and train on it when I train on other forms less in the number system this way I can keep most of my material up to date.
If all this adds up and the form is usable for example I find the Mantis and Tigers mor applicable than Budha Fist then I assume or know "you guys choose which word to use" it is the real deal. I dont care that the Flavor or fluidity is missing I know with time it will occur. Probably not to you guys standards though. KC

I agree with you on that issue. We do have our discrepancies though. I'd have to say I'd agree with you far more than I'd disagree. But we just have different personalities and thought patterns. No biggie.

[mkriii]

You must be really bored at work to give such a dam about SD. I mean, you haven't been a student of SD since you were, what 10? Really, who cares anymore? Everybody's just tired of this nonsense; let it go.

No, actually I was 14. Get it right.

[Shaolin Wookie]

I would say he's got more CMA flavor compared to typical SD folks, but it's hard to tell with the form all chopped up like that.

That mantis stance he does looks gay.

I went back and watched that video. It's really, really bad. I've seen much better firsthand from green belts--especially the Fei Hu Chu Tung. Shoot, the videos I had of myself doing it were 10X better. I wonder why he chose those forms to display, when he's not very good at them. His drunken was much, much better; and no doubt, he's very good. But he's not very good at SD....LOL.....

[DPL]

The fundamental issue is veracity, and the lack of it has been demonstrated by SD plenty of times on this forum.

Mas Judt, ladies and gentlemen, back once more to thump his Great Bible of Truth at the uneducated masses. The premier living example of the phrase 'strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.' Step right up and see him before he jaunts off to tilt at another windmill. But step with care - he's grouchy. It's not easy fighting for Truth, Justice and the Shaolin Way 24/7/365.

And on a slightly more serious note... 'the fundamental issue is veracity'?? C'mon, dude, do you think it makes you sound smart to use them thar big words? Just say the basic problem is truth. But mayhap you are suffering from a fundamental inability to overcome your tendency towards garrulity.

[Mas Judt]

Well golly, I never realized that was a 'big' word. I'll try to keep it simple for you.

When you sell yourself using a story that is not true, you are misrepresenting (I'm sorry, was that word too difficult to understand for you DPL?) your product/service.

Obfuscating (Gosh darnit, there I go again, using English) when confronted with challenges does not make it better.

I've clearly stated my case repeatedly, no need to rehash it. But there is certainly issues of integrity and honor, that are often ignored by SD as a group.

Having a wonky lineage that is hard to verify is not unheard of. But claiming to be EVERYTHING, the ultimate resource, THE grandmaster, et al... is just silly. Sad, really.

Oh, and I apologize for using words that are too big for you DPL. It's just most of the folks on the board, including a few SDers seem to have a substantially higher IQ than you. So go on off and continue being a tool, while I chat with the adults.

[DPL]

I've clearly stated my case repeatedly, no need to rehash it. But there is certainly issues of integrity and honor, that are often ignored by SD as a group.

LOL - while you're using those big words, try stringing them together with proper grammar. 'Is' is generally used with singular constructions, unless of course you're too busy congratulating yourself about how smart you are, at which point I guess it doesn't matter as you're sort of painting the clown face on yourself.

We're all painfully familiar with your 'case', as you high-handedly remind everyone that you can't see how we live with ourselves about once a month. One thing I've learned is that anytime someone preaches about capital-T Truth as much as you do, they've usually got some fairly large untruths lurking around in their closet.

But hey, maybe you're the exception who proves the rule and you're merely a dull, repetitive - but very honest! - narcissist who likes to hear himself type.

The concept of truth has always been a strange benchmark for humanity anyway - pretty much all daily existence is a series of misdirections and lies, from body language to tone of voice to little white lies and big black ones. How many people in corporate America are themselves with their co-workers? How many married people are themselves with their spouses?

But wait, I shouldn't speak of truth as it's your territory and I'm sure you're just bursting to explain it to us all again.

[Mas Judt]

Nah, I'll stick to talking to the adults.

You know, repeating the same action over and over again and expecting a different response is a definition for insanity. However, when talking to the mentally challenged, you can simply exhaust yourself. So I'll politely ask people to just go through the thread before I go insane or get just bored.

You chose your path. Good luck with that.

[Judge Pen]

You know, repeating the same action over and over again and expecting a different response is a definition for insanity.

They must have left that definition out of my copy of the DSM-IV. I thought it was just being persistent, stubborn or just hard-headed.

[sean_stonehart]

They must have left that definition out of my copy of the DSM-IV. I thought it was just being persistent, stubborn or just hard-headed.

I thought it was being Southern...

[Mas Judt]

As a lawyer, JP, your objective is to prove a point of view, regardless of the facts. I'd like to envision you as a young Atticus Finch, ready to put the hairy-monk b!tch-slap on the criminal element.