Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[themindreader]

Like I said, your experience with him, in the distant past, was different than mine from 2000 to 2009. During that time, I was one of his highest ranking students, and close friends with his oldest son (who is one of the best people I've ever met btw) and I never experienced anything that you describe. Maybe it was that way in the past, I can't say as I wasn't there, but he is not the same person you describe now. People can learn from their mistakes; and be humbled by them too.

I think it is unfair to judge his motivations for leaving based on what you knew of the past, and not based on where he is now. And I think it is unfair to compare a teacher who plead to a crime to one who was not prosecuted or convicted of one.

There should not be much difference between what the Soards did and what Mullins did years ago. If you believe that he has changed then you should also be agreeing to give the Soards another chance too. I think that would be bad but it follows your logic.

Do you know what happened in KY? It sounds like you many not understand. You are confusing the likability of Mullins with the potential havic his personality can cause. I've talked with him years after the fact and find him charming and likable but once you see what a person has done, you don't ignore what they can do.

[shen ku]

Share your info, I know we would all like to know

[kungfujunky]

I don't believe they were kicked out because the Soards requested it, they would be kicked out because they left shaolin do and continued to teach preventing Sin The from collecting fees.

Not true. Again you make assumptions when others who were there know the facts. All the breakaway schools tried to stay with The but he wouldn't have it cause it ****ed off the soards.

It happened nearly exactly like JP states.

[Judge Pen]

There should not be much difference between what the Soards did and what Mullins did years ago. If you believe that he has changed then you should also be agreeing to give the Soards another chance too. I think that would be bad but it follows your logic.

Do you know what happened in KY? It sounds like you many not understand. You are confusing the likability of Mullins with the potential havic his personality can cause. I've talked with him years after the fact and find him charming and likable but once you see what a person has done, you don't ignore what they can do.

The problem here is that you are insinuating much, without sharing any information to back it up. If we are ignorant and don't understand, then enlighten us. My information about Mullins comes from my own experiences and what I know first hand. If you know something more, then tell it. Oh, and tell us who you are too. If you speak the truth, then revealing your identity can't hurt either.

[Judge Pen]

And since your new to the forum, and we have not been properly introduced, my name is Ben Mullins (no familial relation to Garry Mullins or his sons). I started training in 1989 under Vernard Whitaker from Whitesburg KY (who taught in Pound VA). He died in 1993 in a helicopter accident. I received my 1st degree under him and my 2nd, 3rd and 4th under Mullins.

[themindreader]

The problem here is that you are insinuating much, without sharing any information to back it up. If we are ignorant and don't understand, then enlighten us. My information about Mullins comes from my own experiences and what I know first hand. If you know something more, then tell it. Oh, and tell us who you are too. If you speak the truth, then revealing your identity can't hurt either.

What I am insinuating is also known first hand. I know Mullins first hand and was there when his controvery occurred as were many others that knew him prior to his move from KY. It wasn't good

Just because he was always nice and you were his student and he didn't create another contorvery, doesnt mean what I am insinuating is not true; everyone in KY that knew him at the time knows what I am insinating.

Essentially Mullins did a similar thing that the Soards did, that is why he had to leave KY. The only difference was it ended up becoming consentual and not with his wife. The area that was even worse was how he treated his children at the time by essentially ignoring them.

I do not know why my identity is important as why you are wanting to know it.

[Judge Pen]

I don't trust anonymous sources that's all. It's too easy to hide behind a keyboard and a computer and be the know everything guy without anyone being able to judge your credibility or have any accountability for what you are saying.

And you will notice that I did not discredit anything you say. I wasn't there. But there's a big difference between marital infidelity and sexual assault, and I still think your comparisons to Soard and Ted Bundy are reckless even if everything you say is true and he had an affair with a student. Isn't that what you are beating around the bush and not specifically saying?

And the fact he hasn't created another controversy is specifically relevant to this conversation. A mistake is one thing, but to repeat it is worse. So if he has learned from his mistakes then he is now a better person because of it, then good for him. How long ago were these actions that you speak of? At least 20 years?

As for his children, and I'm assuming you are talking about his two sons, they can speak for themselves as to how they were "treated". It's not your place to speak for them.

[Alex Córdoba]

Can you imagine posting in this thread in 2023?

[themindreader]

My point which is not being addressed, Mullins has split from sin the due to the moral issue with sin the defending and not kicking out the soards.

How can this be true if Mullins himself has a similar controversy? What I am saying is his stated reason cannot be true?

We can debate if his controversy was as bad as the soards but the fact remains given his past he cannot be appalled by the soards or sin the.

By the way he caused divorce not his originally, had to close his class in Ky, refused to see his sons. His own family were ****ed off at how he was acting and his parents even went to see him about a a abandoniing his sons at least. His wife threatened to divorce him and since she worked for an attorney he ran back to his wife after several month because she was going to clean his clock. His wife agreed to take him back with the condition that they move to keep him away from his student. That is how Kermit the frog made it to tenn.

This is such a moral person that Mullins would go to the house of the husband of the wife be was seeing and try to intimidate him by turning in his drive way frequently until the cops started intimidating him back.

My point about Ted bundy is even seemingly nice people can not be nice, everyone that knew bundy thought he was nice and were surprised by what they found.

From the multiple posts I must have hit a nerve and doubt has been stated due to reasons like I haven't provided my identity or I knew him and he was a nice guy and hasn't had a controversy in 20 years. What happened happened and he is lying about why he split with sin the and that tells me he is still Gary Mullins the same person.

You can believe me or not I have no reason to lie. I think people are not bein objective and may still yern to shaolin do.

My take on most shaolin do "masters" is they are very egotistical tough guy wannabees that have no morality. I even remember talking with a mutual billing company that most shaolin do teachers used that mr grooms had a controversy but that was 2nd hand so I cannot vouch for its validity. It is clear shaolin do has too many shady people.
I just can't believe his nerve given the drama he himself caused.

[Judge Pen]

My point which is not being addressed, Mullins has split from sin the due to the moral issue with sin the defending and not kicking out the soards.

How can this be true if Mullins himself has a similar controversy? What I am saying is his stated reason cannot be true?

We can debate if his controversy was as bad as the soards but the fact remains given his past he cannot be appalled by the soards or sin the.

By the way he caused divorce not his originally, had to close his class in Ky, refused to see his sons. His own family were ****ed off at how he was acting and his parents even went to see him about a a abandoniing his sons at least. His wife threatened to divorce him and since she worked for an attorney he ran back to his wife after several month because she was going to clean his clock. His wife agreed to take him back with the condition that they move to keep him away from his student. That is how Kermit the frog made it to tenn.

This is such a moral person that Mullins would go to the house of the husband of the wife be was seeing and try to intimidate him by turning in his drive way frequently until the cops started intimidating him back.

My point about Ted bundy is even seemingly nice people can not be nice, everyone that knew bundy thought he was nice and were surprised by what they found.

From the multiple posts I must have hit a nerve and doubt has been stated due to reasons like I haven't provided my identity or I knew him and he was a nice guy and hasn't had a controversy in 20 years. What happened happened and he is lying about why he split with sin the and that tells me he is still Gary Mullins the same person.

You can believe me or not I have no reason to lie. I think people are not bein objective and may still yern to shaolin do.

My take on most shaolin do "masters" is they are very egotistical tough guy wannabees that have no morality. I even remember talking with a mutual billing company that most shaolin do teachers used that mr grooms had a controversy but that was 2nd hand so I cannot vouch for its validity. It is clear shaolin do has too many shady people.
I just can't believe his nerve given the drama he himself caused.

I understand the premise of your point, but I don't agree with the fundamental under-pinning's of your point that someone can't change after 20 years. If you make a mistake in the past, you can't be appalled by someone who makes a similar, but worse, mistake in the future (especially since the sexual relationship was not consensual, and seems to have occurred twice in a 4 year period of time if there's any truth to the rumors now).

An analogy might be in order. I get a DUI in 1993 and I lose my job and nearly my family as a result. I give up the bottle and stay clean for the next 20 years and my wife and family takes me back only if I decide to move away from bad influences and stay sober. Do I not have the right to be upset or disgusted with an acquaintance of mine who, in the past 4 years, has 2 DUI's that resulted in the injury of innocent people? Because of my mistake in the past, I lost the right to be upset about someone's present actions which are similar, but worse? That logic doesn't make sense to me.

And let's put the Soards into perspective; before his first prosecution, and subsequent guilty plea, many people on this forum and outside in SD have complained about how poor quality the material being taught by the Soards were and how cultish their classes were run. Add the sexual assault allegations in 2009 on top of and we can understand why people that chose to make a living teaching SD would want to distance themselves from the Soards. If this has happened again, and you are teaching SD and want to continue to do so, then why someone wants to distance themselves makes sense to me. Even if they've made similar mistakes in the past.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Is the only one thus far to do so. That I know of. Except for Knoxville Tn Group. KC

Nope. There's more.

Soon as I found out, I came here to find out what the hell was going on, LOL.

I stopped attending classes for almost six months after my wife had our son. I came back to find a whole new situation.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Granted, I'm reading between the lines but it seems like Asheville is saying that it would be unethical to stay associated with a man who backs the Soards while it is, apparently, still okay to misrepresent the source of your material.

Probably the exact opposite. I'd wager that they're using the more convenient excuse to act on a long building distrust in SD. But it is the right decision, whatever the reason.

I'm of the school that if you voluntarily join an association, you can just as voluntarily leave it if you feel that you have reason to do so--whatever that reason is.

[Shaolin Wookie]

My point which is not being addressed, Mullins has split from sin the due to the moral issue with sin the defending and not kicking out the soards.

How can this be true if Mullins himself has a similar controversy? What I am saying is his stated reason cannot be true?


.....and all the rest of this post

I've often heard this line of argumentation. The problem with "hypocrisy" based arguments (and the Right/Left political establishment uses these exclusively) is that there is no leeway for personal change or objectivity.

If some man (and this is hypothetical--not related to the case at hand or the people involved) lives twenty years of his life as a wife-abusing drug addict, but then cleans up, gets a job, and lives productively, then he is not a hypocrite if he tells some young wife-abusing drug addict that he's wasting his life, hurting people, and living an unproductive lifestyle.

Sometimes people make the right decisions for the right reasons, even though they may not have made the right decisions in the past.

Any other viewpoint assumes that we're all ****ed, morality is relative, and that everything is a shade of gray (except, of course, the presupposition that "everything" is a shade of gray, which sounds like a pretty black/white universal to me).

[Shaolin Wookie]

On an unrelated note, Mullins always seemed like a knowledgeable, respectful, polite, and capable martial artist to me when I was his student (only 3 times). In a professional sense, he lived up to his station. But I did not know the man well. I only know that what he taught me has always served me well.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Anyhoo.....good luck to you all. I wish you well.