Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Shaolindynasty]

Good post Okami, I also beleive at the bottom of all the stuff that gets hashed and rehashed about shaolin do, is probally a legitamate style of martial arts. People can argue history till the end of the world and acomplish nothing. Using history to define a martial art is flawed, look at CLF on the southern forum. Choy Lay Fut is a pretty new style(maybe 200 years?) still people argue about history, who cares. Also i don't care about what type of uniform they use, I mean would we say someone doesn't practice real CMA because they wear sweat clothes to train in?

The only real problem I see with the Shaolin Do system is the 900(or more) forms that Sin The teaches. That is way to much info to have for any one man. It seems like he incorperated or made up allot of stuff more recent, I suspect for business reasons but who knows. I can't comment on the effectiveness of their technique since i have never personally trained with them.

Most people I meet on these forums from Shaolin do are pretty open about trading info and they do seem well behaved, which is allot more than I can say about Chung mo quan people. So there are some good things about that school, they just need to be careful about becoming forms collectors.

[Okami]

I thought I had a line on some new info, but it didn't pan out.

Before the summer is over I am going to make a trip to Lexington and try to talk to Bill Leonard. He is Sin The's highest ranking student.

No promises though. I am sure he is a busy guy just like the rest of us.

[dezhen2001]

Hi stumblefist, just wanted to say that i seem to post ok without having to log in again... maybe it's a problem with your account?

david

[dezhen2001]

no problem, glad i was of some small help.
U mean the english is bad in Cali? or in china?

take care,
david

[GeneChing]

...whew doggies! That's one tall order. I wish I could. All I can do is go back and manually delete silly posts, and that's a lot of work. someday when I have nothing better to do....

There was a big data corruption when it came down to dates. That stuff is lost for good and it does jam some our our search processing. It was the best we could do to save what we had. Unfoturnately, we are at the mercy of the forum provider for the search engine. Their last update crashed the whole forum a while ago. Hopefully the next won't be so devastating. But most of the data is there, which I think is the important thing.

Part of me agrees with you about the whole Shaolin-Do debate, the numbers are interesting. But as the moderator here, I just get tired of the cattiness of the debating style.

Not sure what's going on with your logging in problem. You're the first to complain about it, Stumble...

[themeecer]

Originally posted by Okami
On a side note, Sin's brother operates schools in KY also.
I have noticed a difference between students of Sin and his brother. Their katas (please excuse my use of this Japanese word, it is the term we use for all types of sets of movements in my school) are performed differently. Sin's students are slower and seem more Karate-like. Hiang's students perform with more fluid motion and particularly in animal forms, seem more like the animal they imitate. Personal style I guess.

Very very good post, especially coming from a somewhat impartial observer. I started studying Shaolin Do when Masters Sin and Hiang (pronounced Shawn) were still teaching together. I agree with your above statement, mostly. I am a student of Master Bob Green whose teachers were both brothers. Once the split occurred he remained with Sin The'. I agree that some of the schools that are under Sin The's "camp" have altered the art some, to make it easier for students or for whatever reason. I have seen it at our tournaments and it sickens me. It also seems that Master Hiang teaches exactly the way he did when Master Green studied under him 35 years ago. I have attended some classes under one of Master Hiang's students and they match what we do at our school verbatim: fluid, flowing, fast movements.

[Radhnoti]

Wow. This topic popped up right about the time I started keeping a lower profile (around 2nd brown)...meaning not jumping up to defend EVERY time someone says some little thing wrong about shaolin-do. I started posting on these boards as a shaolin-do white belt almost 4 years ago, and spent way to much time arguing on this very forum. A lot of it is lost...and that's probably for the best. I got my black this past March, and it's amazing how this debate keeps popping up. Cyclical indeed.
Regardless, themeecer welcome to KFO. My instructor has picked up a bit from Master Green, and holds him in the highest regard. Please don't let the differing viewpoints here drag you down...many folks opinions of GM Sin and SD are as entrenched in the negative as your's is in the positive. In the end, the only opinion that matters is your own...but I'm sure you know that.

Take care, and PM or e-mail me if you want to discuss anything (SD related or not).

[brassmonkey]

Don't worry guys, if people here thought you were from legit sources they would then be arguing that your art is not the true transmission rather then fraud, so there is always critisism.

[themeecer]

You are probably right Brassmonkey. What style do you study? (And I promise not to say it isn't a real art)

[brassmonkey]

I try to practice Tai Chi Chuan but I don't presume I'm doing it. One of the reasons I don't give specifics is to avoid getting in clashes with people saying what I do sucks etc. This way they can only argue with my words.

[themeecer]

Hehe ... like that would happen on these boards. Hehe

I am amazed at the attitudes of a lot of these people towards other's arts. There are good practitioners in all arts. In fact in every art there will always be at least one person more superior than all of us posters.

Friend, I wouldn't dog you for what style you do. In fact I would love to push hands with you someday. I haven't had a chance to do that with anyone that is solely of an internal style. All other schools here are TKD.

[brassmonkey]

If you stay on this board your going to always be in a battle on several fronts with people from many styles. Why? I'd give up arguing with everyone, I don't believe your going to change theyre mind because they feel theyre style that's in your system isnt the same and is a fake. If your happy doing what your doing that's the bottom line of course. I have my opinions on Shaolin Do in fact I was 1 of the first detractors to get the ball rolling long ago when Kung Fu magazine didnt own this site. At some point all martial arts are made up...alot have colorful fictional histories to go along with them even the style I practice Tai Chi Chuan probably has a fictional history with Chang Seng Feng or maybe not, who will ever know.

Perhaps if we get to know each other better we could do some push hands. I've had people outside my system try to burn me when I allowed myself to be used for demo purposes(very very dumb.)

[themeecer]

That is why I like push hands, it is easy to be friends afterwards. In fact I would like to find someone to school me all over the place. You learn best that way.

[brassmonkey]

that quote on push hands I saw almost exact same thing quoted by a Tai Chi Master. However at tournaments where people are cordial b4 often is very different during or after the competition. Its like hulk syndrome or something. No judo schools around? Theyre randori is great to work against.

[themeecer]

That's why I prefer sparring or pushing hands with no spectators. It is just you and the other person. No ego, no having to look good for others. It is a better learning experience for both parties, instead of one trying to beat down the other.