Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Starchaser107]

growing old and getting fat suxors

[Judge Pen]

Yeah, wasn't it like, a only few years ago he was seeing the playboy playmate out in California?

meecer with a mullet... that would be like Jackie Chan with an afro and a bucket of KFC.

-Will

I don't know about the playmate, but the two ladies he brought to the Lexington tournament from Cali in 2003 were fine.

[Golden Tiger]

growing old and getting fat suxors

Preach on brother.....

[MonkeySlap Too]

Good luck running a business and staying cut. One thing I can't deny Sin The' - the man has maintained some killer conditioning... good genetics for it help, but that's a lot of hard work to look like that.

[Judge Pen]

Good luck running a business and staying cut. One thing I can't deny Sin The' - the man has maintained some killer conditioning... good genetics for it help, but that's a lot of hard work to look like that.

My genes are too lazy to look that cut.

[lxtruong]

My genes are too lazy to look that cut.

You genes and your arms and your legs and your abs and ....

Hey man, I'm there too. My conditioning is no where near where it should be.

[MasterKiller]

Good luck running a business and staying cut. One thing I can't deny Sin The' - the man has maintained some killer conditioning... good genetics for it help, but that's a lot of hard work to look like that.

I dunno about "maintained." Most of those videos and pictures are from the 70s and 80s, but he did look good for someone that old. He looks like a worn-out old man in most of the newer pics.

[Radhnoti]

Just to be clear, all the entire group of us have been able to say we know about the short forms is:
Some schools mistakenly call them tan tui.
It's a 30 "form" summary of something we've heard was called 108 steps of the Lohan.
This has been cited as THE BASE OF OUR SYSTEM and that's all the history we've got...
Other systems that I've learned a bit about fare similarly, for example two of the forms taught at 1st brown...Connecting fist and 5 directional palm (my favorite things I've learned in SD). Sometimes people classify them as "China Hand" but I wonder if this isn't revisionist as calling our short forms tan tui seems to be, sort of attempting to paint on a more recognizable kung-fu paintjob. The older students often say that they heard it was classified under the category of "Tiger" which is VERY confusing to me (none of the trademarks of Tiger that I've come to recognize in other SD forms). This is one of the things I begged my instructor to find out about by asking HIS teacher to clarify the history (a fellow SD requires that students address as Master), and when he did so the answer was that he didn't know and why ask such pointless questions. He couldn't even clear up what category to place those forms into...adding his opinion that they shared quite a few similarities to various bird-like forms

In a seminar I attended with one of GM Sin's earliest students he mentioned that the short forms weren't as linear as they now are, he then showed us a couple and the way they'd been changed. It was a big difference...and looked quite a bit more difficult than the way we do them now.
Here's the best idea of the way they should be performed I've read about "short form theory", it was put together by one of the TN students (as far as I know not a master) back when everyone was allowed on the Mullins forum. By the way, that one time shining example of free exchange of information is (I believe) ANOTHER casualty of petty politics.

Written by KungFuGenius on the Mullins forum:
Here's a little short form theory I've thought up, don't know how right it is, but hey, why not get some feedback/discussion from my fellow SD people. Anyways, here it is.

Short Form Overview
Short form is the foundation of future material taught to the student. It teaches footwork, punching, grabbing, breaking, sweeping, and kicking. It also promotes strength and flexibility throughout the body. Each block is a strike, and each strike is a block. Short form also teaches the use of the entire body as a single weapon. Hip and shoulder movement is very important, as they are the roots of the power in the arms and legs.

Attacking Power of Short Form
In Short Form, your punch should start in mid-step and extend completely when the step lands. Before the attack is done, the hips should rotate with the fist, therefore extending the reach and power of the punch. When you step forward with the right foot, the left pushes the body forward, use this momentum to throw the arm and increase your striking power. The harder the back leg pushes the stronger the attack.
When the hips and shoulders rotate with the punch, the body turns sideways and extends the arm further, which increases range and power. When the momentum of the back legs push and the twisting of the hips and shoulders is combined, a lot of power can be produced. It doesn’t matter what the movement is: punching, thrusting, smashing, blocking (in front, above, or to the side), this method stays the same.
Kicking in Short Form is quick but strong. Pressing the hip out with the kick just before the moment of impact will ensure that you kick through your opponent, considering you’ve judged the distance accurately (neither too close or too far). Kicking can mess up the hip movement for the next attack. If you kick with the right foot, the right hip has shifted forward. Since most short forms end with a kick, and the kicking leg lands to start the next attack, having the hip already pressed outward when you set the foot down will cause you to lose power in your next attack (which is usually a hand attack). Because of this, rechambering the kicking leg is very important, as that sets the hip back into place, ready to rotate with your next attack, whether it be a punch or kick.
In addition to hip and shoulder movement, each strike should be done as hard as possible. .Making each strike as hard as it can takes a lot of work and this training has no true ending. Though you will learn to strike harder, you are still striking as hard as you can, thus draining your physical strength. This goes back to the theory that Short Form is the foundation of all future material. Learn to punch and kick hard now so time won’t be wasted making them powerful later.

Balance and Stances of Short Form
Stances in Short Form are deep, which creates strength and balance in the legs. Balance is very important because without it, the hip and shoulder rotation is awkward, which then in turn decreases the striking power. Rechambering the attacks will help your balance. Deep stances will also improve balance as well as flexibility and strength. In many styles, the stance is considered the essence and foundation of the art. Without a strong foundation, a building will crumble. Ideally, the thigh should be parallel with the ground when standing in the Bo Stance. A great deal of flexibility and strength is required to maintain the stances. The only way to improve balance, strength, and flexibility in Short Form is to do Short Form. Again, Short Form is a foundation, build the foundation now so the building won’t crumble.

Blocking in Short Form
Every block should be crippling to the enemy. When blocking the head, the arm goes up in arc to clear the attacker’s limb out of the way. This clearing also begins the hip rotation. Blocking in front is done as if you’re attacking. Remember that each block is an attack and vice versa. Blocking as if you’re striking will make sure the opponent will be hurt no matter what he does.

Stepping in Short Form
Stepping is done as if stepping over a fallen opponent. Step in a straight line. After each short form, bring the heel up almost to kick yourself in the butt, then step through. When you step, your body should not rise higher than the height of your bo stance; the same goes for when you throw an attack. This builds strength and balance in your steps.

Apologies to KungFuGenius for posting without his permission, but I thought this was very good and AT THE TIME it was posted on a public forum.

[lxtruong]

I dunno about "maintained." Most of those videos and pictures are from the 70s and 80s, but he did look good for someone that old. He looks like a worn-out old man in most of the newer pics.

Well he has sustained some injuries, so I think that he hasn't been able to keep in as good shape as he would like. That being said, he still looks phenomenal for a man of his age. He's 61? 62? years old. Most 60+ year olds can only dream of looking like he does, even when his conditioning isn't tip-top. I know that when I'm 60, if I even look half as good I'll be happy.

[Judge Pen]

That was an excellent description of the way our short form should be done and the principles behind them. I too miss they open forum days and rue the politics behind it. That was the same post I was going to make, but I was going to have to re-type the entire thing so I hadn't gotten around to it.

Tiger, China Hand, Long Fist I've heard all of the descriptions for 5 Directional Palm and Connecting Fist. It's groupled with a Golden Tiger form that is obviously Northern in origen.

As for my conditioning, I have an excuse for that, but I'm working hard to get over it. As for Master Sin, I defer to what lxtroung posted.

[wdl]

It's groupled with a Golden Tiger form that is obviously Northern in origen.

The opening and closing in that form is another subject of debate. LOL

-Will

[Golden Tiger]

I dunno about "maintained." Most of those videos and pictures are from the 70s and 80s, but he did look good for someone that old. He looks like a worn-out old man in most of the newer pics.

All of those were from 1988-93 or there abouts. The "business man" look was the 70's and 80's. Someone have their dates mixed up. He got ripped and cut prior to moving to LA for the movie stuff.

...Just to be clear, all the entire group of us have been able to say we know about the short forms is: .............This has been cited as THE BASE OF OUR SYSTEM and that's all the history we've got...

Rad, you should know the extent of what history is offered with SD. If it is a history rich style with a bullet proof lineage, perhaps this is not the style for you. If you are happy with what SD does have to offer, by all means continue. But, on the other hand, you feel the need to constantly justify the history and training, you are wasting your time.

Connecting fist and 5 directional palm (my favorite things I've learned in SD). Sometimes people classify them as "China Hand"

That is because when they were taught to a select few MANY years ago, that is what they were called. 18 and 22 I think. Others mistakenly call them Tiger forms because of Ching Kung Fu Hu Chien that they are taught with(which, by the way is Golden Cyborg nets/traps the tiger, not golden mountain tigernet trap form as it is sometimes refered to as). They are "sister " forms. The China hand reference comes from one using a claw, another a fist and the other and open palm. The biggest problem is that most aren't perfectionist so they don't take the stuff down verbatim. Over time it all mutates. Called Evolution.

I begged my instructor to find out about by asking HIS teacher to clarify the history (a fellow SD requires that students address as Master), and when he did so the answer was that he didn't know and why ask such pointless questions.

Are you saying that the only reason that this person should be addressed as Master is because SD requires it? If you don't have respect for this person, who taught your teacher, who taught you.....

In a seminar I attended with one of GM Sin's earliest students he mentioned that the short forms weren't as linear as they now are, he then showed us a couple and the way they'd been changed.

I may have misunderstood the other day what you all was refering to. The forms didn't change per se but yes, the way some were executed did. It wasn't done because of the "western" curse, just because over time the circlular motion was straightened out.

back when everyone was allowed on the Mullins forum. By the way, that one time shining example of free exchange of information is (I believe) ANOTHER casualty of petty politics.

Man, I have been kissing every butt in Tenn to try to get back there but it just ain't happening, so yes, politic's suck. As for petty, everything is relative.....

[MasterKiller]

Others mistakenly call them Tiger forms because of Ching Kung Fu Hu Chien that they are taught with(which, by the way is Golden Cyborg nets/traps the tiger, not golden mountain tigernet trap form as it is sometimes refered to as).

Golden Cyborg?

[The Willow Sword]

Hee hee hee,,yeah the golden cyborg. You know the Sd people can just say it without thinking twice about it. the term as it was justified to me in years past was that was Sin the's interpretation of a chinese word that meant something along the lines of "golden living statue" or something like that.

Peace,,,TWS

[Golden Tiger]

Similar to the the "Pekufo" in our Hsing I animals. The translation is not exact so it was said to be like a pheasant, quail and foul.