Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Golden Tiger]

As for GT's above post,,it just goes to show you how ignorant certain people are when it comes to how important history and lineage IS in the TCMA realm. And as for experience in the arts go,,id rather learn from someone who studied 6 months with a legitamate school than with someone who for 20+ years teaches from a school that fabricates its history and plagerizes other systems forms.

........... Thats probably why you are 0-1......Lineage and history aren't gonna save your buttocks. While you are hitting the books tracking all that down and then double checking it, you should be hitting the bag my friend.

in retrospect and in my opinion i think it is quite easy to plaguerize forms that you see ,say like on videotapes,,and then modify them to make it look like your own. Its easy to do this because there is no real legal copywrite put down on these forms because in the past, say like mid to late 70's and even early 80's martial instruction vids were done independantly and distributed independantly.

Although I have already covered this point....

1. 1977: The First VHS VCR is Introduced in the U.S.

2. Show me all these 180 ish forms we have on tape and I'll quit sweating my butt off in class...

[The Willow Sword]

But wouldnt you want to "specialize" in something? i mean you seem like how i was back in the old days where i was looking at other schools and communicating with other student and teachers of other systems and getting ideas and things from them. i mean if you are travelling and visiting other schools then i would contend that you are not really getting what you need there at sd. oh sure you are becoming a jack of all trades when it comes to forms,,but if you decided to really stick with one style and really master it and make it your own,,you could be a very reputable teacher like most in the TCMA realm.

just more food thinking.


Peace,,TWS

[Judge Pen]

The thing is I am getting what I want from SD. A lot of that comes from the quality of instruction I'm receiving with my teachers. They are very good to me. I spar them often and I am a better fighter now then when I was more gifted athletically. Just because I compare notes with other schools doesn't mean I'm not getting what I want here. More often than not, I'm pleasantly surprised by how well my training measures up (I say "pleasantly surprised" because I get it drummed into my head from this forum that my stuff is worthless all the time, it's nice to confirm that it isn't. ) I'm very fortunate that I have good relationships with teachers in other cities that I train with also, but it doesn't take away from my SD training. I take what I learn from them and make it work for me (just like I do with SD).

Do I want to specialize? Maybe someday. There's no local teacher that I would want to train with other than my current teacher. If I moved somewhere else, then I would judge the instruction available more than the style.

And I could care less about becoming a reputable teacher. I only help my teacher instruct when he needs my help. I think I'm a pretty good teacher--very detail oriented (much more so then I am with myself I must confess), but I have no interest in teaching on my own. I'd much rather simply train.

[Fu-Pow]

Whatever Fu Pow. I always make a point to visit as many different kung fu schools as I can (especially when I travel). It's about time that you noticed.

Haha...just messing with you....I'm working on my snappy one-liners ala Masterkiller style.

[Judge Pen]

I'm working on my snappy one-liners ala Masterkiller style.

MK's the master of one-liner forum-fu.

[Brad]

It's not that hard to find books, etc. with 5-10 forms in them... and not all forms have to be coppied from books. Forms in book form are have been around for many many years. Also people have been teaching seminars and competiting in tournements with this stuff for a long time too. It's not too hard to gather forms through books, video, seminars, and just plain observation. He also doesn't need to know every single form he claims to teach. As new stuff becomes available to the public, the system grows. My first karate teacher was able to gather at least 100 different forms from various styles (some pretty darn rare). He kept tons of hand written notes to help him remember it all. We managed to track down part of the origins of what he taught, but there's still a lot we'll never manage to track down. The guy would still be in buisness today if he hadn't been brought down by being caught engaging in somewhat unrelated criminal activity (child molestation).

Personally, I think Sin The is going to get away with his crimes until the day he dies. Most of these crooks aren't going to get into trouble unless they do something else... like my first teacher with his actraction to underage girls, or "Iron" Kim with the tax evasion and cult. Sin The seems more common con-man than deranged sicko like some of these other guys.

[Golden Tiger]

Personally, I think Sin The is going to get away with his crimes until the day he dies.

........................

[SimonM]

Yeah, what the header says.

Come on, the SD guys and the anti-SD guys aren't going to budge from their postions and those of us who couldn't give a flying fu<k about SD would rather talk about something else. I think it's time to let it go!

[DragonflyDaoist]

I can tolerate the doubts about lineage, the comparison of the structure and performance of our forms, and most of the other BS floating around about SD. But thievery is a serious accusation, and it breaks my otherwise peaceful and patient state of being. In other words, it ****es me off.

POINT #1
What is a form? It is simply a way of conveying information and technique without the use of physical media such as videotape, audiotape, or paper. Should I be upset because others write on paper, like me?

POINT #2
I don't believe Grandmaster Sin The' would commit thievery. I have spent some time around the man, and my Master is one of GM Sin's direct students. By all accounts, he is a great person, aside from being a martial arts instructor/Master/Grandmaster. Besides that, if he were the thieving sort, his lifestyle would be evidence of that. Thieves want something for nothing. GM Sin still promotes each student personally (unless things have changed in the past few years). SD schools are scattered across the country, and, at one time, totalled 111 (I don't know how old that figure is). Take a survey of thieves, and ask them if they would work that hard. If I were a dishonest GM Sin The', I would appoint his senior students to do all the travelling and testing for him, and show up a couple of times a year at tournaments to reap the praise.

At any rate, the originator of this thread wishes to know about SD. A couple of you have just said that GM Sin stole material. List in a new thread the resources, whether they are videotape, audiotape, optical disc, books, essays, theses, cave wall markings, etc, that he stole the material from. Neither I nor those curious about SD want to see excuses for your failure to produce. Either show evidence, or don't make such accusations.

Put up or shut up.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Sorry about my delays - this is a busy year.

Anybody can discuss the theories of Xing-Yi - there are a ton of books out there, especially in Chinese. But actually having the 'kung fu' is another matter.

I am responding to having watched SD "Hsing Ie" on video and once in person. (I recently missed a SD "Xing Ie" seminar in San Jose, I wanted to make a polite visit so I could speak from more experience, but I'm too busy with work.)

Please understand there is a wide range of styles that fall under the Xing Yi/Xin Yi category. There are players and schools out there that are just phenomenal, there is a lot of modern Wushu, and a lot of half-baked stuff. Even done 'externally' a lot of Xing Yi can be made to function to some degree.

THAT being said, from where I'm sitting the SD Xing-Yi doesn't look very much like finctional Xing-Yi to me. I mean, there is no comparison to what I see from Wai Lun Choi's students, or Li Tai Liang's students, or Chang Tung Sheng's (who isn't parrticularly known for his Xing-yi).

My point has been this: If you grew up calling a duck an Eagle, and you've never seen an Eagle before, and everyone around you points to the duck and says 'yep, that's an Eagle.' - You won't know what an Eagle is.

SD would eat a lot less crap if they didn't claim all this wild stuff that is just not correct.

When I meet Judge Pen, we can compare notes, and I'll report back here.

[lxtruong]

I'm curious, do you have any links to any videos that you consider "functional" Xing-Yi? I would like to know what there is "no comparison" to....to of course try to make a comparison.

Sorry about my delays - this is a busy year.

Anybody can discuss the theories of Xing-Yi - there are a ton of books out there, especially in Chinese. But actually having the 'kung fu' is another matter.

I am responding to having watched SD "Hsing Ie" on video and once in person. (I recently missed a SD "Xing Ie" seminar in San Jose, I wanted to make a polite visit so I could speak from more experience, but I'm too busy with work.)

Please understand there is a wide range of styles that fall under the Xing Yi/Xin Yi category. There are players and schools out there that are just phenomenal, there is a lot of modern Wushu, and a lot of half-baked stuff. Even done 'externally' a lot of Xing Yi can be made to function to some degree.

THAT being said, from where I'm sitting the SD Xing-Yi doesn't look very much like finctional Xing-Yi to me. I mean, there is no comparison to what I see from Wai Lun Choi's students, or Li Tai Liang's students, or Chang Tung Sheng's (who isn't parrticularly known for his Xing-yi).

My point has been this: If you grew up calling a duck an Eagle, and you've never seen an Eagle before, and everyone around you points to the duck and says 'yep, that's an Eagle.' - You won't know what an Eagle is.

SD would eat a lot less crap if they didn't claim all this wild stuff that is just not correct.

When I meet Judge Pen, we can compare notes, and I'll report back here.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Go to Emptyflower.

There is a wide range of what is considered 'authentic.' - although between schools may will disagree.

Note - good luck. It's like cutting open the human body, if you don't know what your looking for, it can all look the same in there...

[Judge Pen]

When I meet Judge Pen, we can compare notes, and I'll report back here.

Wow, don't put any pressure on me MS2.

[Golden Tiger]

Anybody can discuss the theories of Xing-Yi - there are a ton of books out there, especially in Chinese.

I lucked out, all my notes are written in both in the offhand event that I ever learn Chinese.....

I am responding to having watched SD "Hsing Ie" on video and once in person.

nuff said........

THAT being said, from where I'm sitting the SD Xing-Yi doesn't look very much like finctional Xing-Yi to me.

see above.....

My point has been this: If you grew up calling a duck an Eagle, and you've never seen an Eagle before, and everyone around you points to the duck and says 'yep, that's an Eagle.' - You won't know what an Eagle is.

see above.....again

[DragonflyDaoist]

As I think I mentioned before, I haven't yet studied Xing Yi. So don't look at this post as an advocacy piece.

Isn't it possible that two groups can achieve similar results via different methods? The majority here say that SD's Xing Yi is no good because it doesn't look like what the majority does. So what? Using the duck/eagle example, though each is different is appearance, each is still a bird. They don't fly in a similar manner, one is water fowl, while the other hunts from the heights. Yet, despite these differences, both are, in fact, birds.

Maybe those who judge SD Xing Yi see no apparent power in videotaped demos, or even in person. But these judges haven't been on the receiving end of an SD Xing Yi strike, either. It is possible to transfer/project energy from the fingertip without movement of the limb.

Like I said, I haven't yet learned Xing Yi, but I do understand Qi, Jing, Shen, and the rest of the package. Just because I don't see my skin glow during meditation doesn't mean the qi isn't flowing.

My point is, I don't think any of us can confidently judge another style/system/technique just by watching it.