Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Empty_Cup]

Hi everybody. New member here and new to martial arts in general. Judge Penn or any Knoxville natives still hanging around? Recently started training in the area and am enjoying the classes a bunch.

Welcome...
Keep an open mind and thick skin here, there are plenty of trolls and flame wars. Don't let it curb your enthusiasm to train in whatever system you choose.

[Old Noob]

Traditional Shaolin is the name of the school - my teacher's name is Daniel Mattson. From what I've read he studied under Elder Master Gary Mullins in the Shaolin-Do system. However, Mullins name doesn't appear to be listed on the Shaolin-Do website with other masters' names. I know in the past (perhaps still?) there has been a lot of controversy surrounding the lineage of Shaolin-Do and the claims made by its' Grandmaster. I just want to state that this isn't really a concern of mine and I'm simply bringing it up for the sake of curiosity.

I suppose I'm simply asking if Gary Mullins and those under him are still part of the Shaolin-Do system or if they've perhaps tried to distance themselves from it somehow? Also, what is the general state of the Shaolin-Do system as of present? I could ask my teacher but I have not been there long and I feel it would be somewhat disrespectful.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to discussing Kung Fu with everyone on this forum and hopefully learning a lot and making some new friends. Take care.

Welcome. Though this thread is very long, its an interesting read that will answer many, if not all of your questions. To your main question, though, SD is now divided into three major branches (with some notable exceptions). The Shaolin Do association branch includes the original school in Lexington and is overseen by Bill Leonard. The school under that banner are primarily in KY, Ohio, Texas, and a few other places. Theres a second branch under Mullins, which I beleive may have subdivided in some way with grooms. These schools use the name Shaolin Do, but practice in sams rather than gis. They primarily function in TN, WV, GA, and Florida, with some recent additions out west. The third branch is out west and generally uses the name Chinese Shaolin Centers rather than Shaolin Do, though they still wear gis for training. That branch is run by the Soards. Though there was some sort of undetailed falling out among Leonard/Mullins/Soards that split SD into the three major divisions, all of those "elder masters" are still tight with Sin The. That's why you'll see their schools listed on Sin The's website but not on the SDA website or the Lexington school's website.

In addition to the three major SD factions, there are some splitters (used in a non-perjorative way) in TN and out west. Some of these folks have gone independant due to sex abuse scandals involving the Soards out west and others have gone independant because of Sin The's penchant for dishonesty regarding the origins of the SD material.

I think that about sums it up. Others can add/subtract/disagree with if you wish.

[Empty_Cup]

Welcome. Though this thread is very long, its an interesting read that will answer many, if not all of your questions. To your main question, though, SD is now divided into three major branches (with some notable exceptions). The Shaolin Do association branch includes the original school in Lexington and is overseen by Bill Leonard. The school under that banner are primarily in KY, Ohio, Texas, and a few other places. Theres a second branch under Mullins, which I beleive may have subdivided in some way with grooms. These schools use the name Shaolin Do, but practice in sams rather than gis. They primarily function in TN, WV, GA, and Florida, with some recent additions out west. The third branch is out west and generally uses the name Chinese Shaolin Centers rather than Shaolin Do, though they still wear gis for training. That branch is run by the Soards. Though there was some sort of undetailed falling out among Leonard/Mullins/Soards that split SD into the three major divisions, all of those "elder masters" are still tight with Sin The. That's why you'll see their schools listed on Sin The's website but not on the SDA website or the Lexington school's website.

In addition to the three major SD factions, there are some splitters (used in a non-perjorative way) in TN and out west. Some of these folks have gone independant due to sex abuse scandals involving the Soards out west and others have gone independant because of Sin The's penchant for dishonesty regarding the origins of the SD material.

I think that about sums it up. Others can add/subtract/disagree with if you wish.

Might also add the separate school under Hsiang The, Sin's brother. Whether he would ever admit to being part of "Shaolin-Do" in the first place is a different question...

[Old Noob]

Might also add the separate school under Hsiang The, Sin's brother. Whether he would ever admit to being part of "Shaolin-Do" in the first place is a different question...

Yes! Good catch. And important given the lineage revelations of the last few pages.

[hiphippo]

Welcome. Though this thread is very long, its an interesting read that will answer many, if not all of your questions. To your main question, though, SD is now divided into three major branches (with some notable exceptions). The Shaolin Do association branch includes the original school in Lexington and is overseen by Bill Leonard. The school under that banner are primarily in KY, Ohio, Texas, and a few other places. Theres a second branch under Mullins, which I beleive may have subdivided in some way with grooms. These schools use the name Shaolin Do, but practice in sams rather than gis. They primarily function in TN, WV, GA, and Florida, with some recent additions out west. The third branch is out west and generally uses the name Chinese Shaolin Centers rather than Shaolin Do, though they still wear gis for training. That branch is run by the Soards. Though there was some sort of undetailed falling out among Leonard/Mullins/Soards that split SD into the three major divisions, all of those "elder masters" are still tight with Sin The. That's why you'll see their schools listed on Sin The's website but not on the SDA website or the Lexington school's website.

In addition to the three major SD factions, there are some splitters (used in a non-perjorative way) in TN and out west. Some of these folks have gone independant due to sex abuse scandals involving the Soards out west and others have gone independant because of Sin The's penchant for dishonesty regarding the origins of the SD material.

I think that about sums it up. Others can add/subtract/disagree with if you wish.

Thank you for the info, Old Noob. I've skimmed through this thread but it is quite long! I appreciate the summary!

[Judge Pen]

Hi everybody. New member here and new to martial arts in general. Judge Penn or any Knoxville natives still hanging around? Recently started training in the area and am enjoying the classes a bunch.

Yes I'm still hanging around. Old Noob summed up the factions in SD rather concisely. Daniel is an excellent teacher and a contemporary of mine. I hope you enjoy your training and don't get caught up in all the drama and politics.

[hiphippo]

Yes I'm still hanging around. Old Noob summed up the factions in SD rather concisely. Daniel is an excellent teacher and a contemporary of mine. I hope you enjoy your training and don't get caught up in all the drama and politics.

Thank you - I'm enjoying it very much so far. Daniel seems like he has a lot to offer and I'm enjoying the internal stuff as much if not more than the other material. Just trying to act like a sponge and absorb as much as possible.

[Snipsky]

this is how students of Shaolin Do train....

[kwaichang]

Which one is YOU. Front or Back, giver or receiver. KC

[wdl]

Yes I'm still hanging around. Old Noob summed up the factions in SD rather concisely. Daniel is an excellent teacher and a contemporary of mine. I hope you enjoy your training and don't get caught up in all the drama and politics.

Dude... this thread is still going??? I've not looked at it in years.....

What's up JP? How's life?

[Judge Pen]

Dude... this thread is still going??? I've not looked at it in years.....

What's up JP? How's life?

Hey man. Life is good. Two beautiful kids and a beautiful wife. And people keep suing so I have pleanty of work.

How goes it with you?

[JSE]

Thank you for the info, Old Noob. I've skimmed through this thread but it is quite long! I appreciate the summary!

Master Daniel has separated his school from both Shaolin Do and the Mullins family. I understand the hesitation to ask, being a new student and all, but he is very open and honest about this and would not mind a bit if you were to ask. Glad you are enjoying the training! Keep it up.

[hiphippo]

Master Daniel has separated his school from both Shaolin Do and the Mullins family. I understand the hesitation to ask, being a new student and all, but he is very open and honest about this and would not mind a bit if you were to ask. Glad you are enjoying the training! Keep it up.

Good to know, JSE. Thank you for the advice.

On another note, it's nice to see so many Knoxville locals hanging around!

[wdl]

Hey man. Life is good. Two beautiful kids and a beautiful wife. And people keep suing so I have pleanty of work.

How goes it with you?

Awesome dude! Good to hear.

Life is good here too. Been in the air force the last five years, three of them in Europe, back in the states in Arizona now. Married, beautiful wife and one kid for me. The terrorists won't stop blowing stuff up or hacking people to pieces.... So plenty of work as well. Hahaha

Can you just sue the terrorists? Get them mired up in red tape until they give up?

So... I've read back and caught up on the drama/saga. Interesting..... But none of it a surprise. It was always a grandiose storyline.

I have to concur with JP, in the rural region there was little choice. Certainly there wasn't another choice where I lived that had the same level of martial intent and physical conditioning and the mental/physical stamina has definately served me well in my present occupation. Without a doubt if I moved back to where I lived in Tennessee I'd begin practicing under the Mullins again.

[wdl]

Ex-East tenn local here....

Hippo:

Daniel is a great instructor and very patient. I'm sure you've noticed this already, you'll be able to learn and expand your skillset under him. When he was part of the Mullins group his students always were sharp and very competitive, at least when I was there.