Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Golden Tiger]

I know I know JP you probably don't want to be my buddy now but as a budist and a good Christian I am compelled to tell the truth.

After taking a gander at some of you previous post on other threads, I certainly hope your kong foo is better than your practice of Budism and your good Christian values .

113 pages and Golden Tiger never showed us his nipples, though.

You want the money shot, you are going to have to fork over some mulahhh

And for the record, I also saw the monkey form on GC's site and it looked nice. In fact, very similar in style to the monks demonstration I happen to see way back.

And I would have to agree with JP. Where it was introduced, I am not sure but in watching a lot of vids of other styles, it seems that we do place a lot more emphasis on power (all kicks and punches) over style and artistic form. Probably due to the fact that the early students were a bunch of un-coordinated white guys that just wanted to learn how to fight.

Anyhoooo.....

[Green Cloud]

Ok guys that's cool, GT toushe on the buddhist remark but as JP pointed out this is a forum so one can't judge my character based on my rantings and ravings.

I have actualy made some friends and some good contacts on this site altough it seems that sometimes I have to stir the pot to get some answers. you guys seem to be very devoted to your style and I admire that.

Don't worry I'm not trolling just patroling, I'm not sure what that meant but it rhymed

greencloud.net

[Crushing Fist]

It seems to me that SD catches the most flack for not wearing the shiny happy kung fu suits that everyone else does and because we go barefoot in our schools (shameful!) all REAL CMA wears nifty little kung fu shoes to train in...


its important


but seriously, if there is one thing SD isn't its Kempo.

it may teach a wide variety of styles but it is not kempo. Many of the forms taught are the same as or very similar to forms taught in other TCMA

most of the beginner stuff is pretty unique unto itself as far as I have seen


the atlanta site used to have lots of videos but in its latest incarnation they are gone.

I'm not sure why but I have been told in the past that less than honorable parties have taught SD forms as their own without permission, which is frowned upon.

If a recognized system simply also had a very similar or identical form in its curriculum I think they can easily tell this fact, versus some karate guy who suddenly starts offering kung fu which is a direct copy of an SD form.


I personally have no concern for copyright issues and the like, but at the same time I would not go against the wishes or directives of my teachers in this.


I've been looking for SD vids online myself lately and have come up dry...

if anyone could find some and link them here that would be cool.

[Golden Tiger]

I've been looking for SD vids online myself lately and have come up dry...

what would you like to see? send me a pm with your email and i will see what santa has in his bag of presents.

[rickyscaggs]

Just thought I'd mention, Shaolin-Do forms are the most retarded fake crap I've ever seen. I can't believe so many people are stupid enough to believe that garbage. But I have to give it up to the guy who started it. You've gotta be a genius to come up with such a ridiculous story, names, and fake cartoon grandmasters, and get people to buy into it. Priceless!

[Judge Pen]

Ok ricky, I'll bite. What forms of Sd have you seen and where? What experience do you have with the style? By the way, what style/experience do you have so we can understand your perspective?

Not trying to start a fight or anything...just curious.

[rickyscaggs]

I watched a bunch of videos I saw on a SD website once. I don't remember where. But there were different animal forms, etc. Typical made-up look of forms you see at any ol' frauds "kungfu" school. Goofy-looking movements that didn't go together and changed directions all over the place. The praying mantis especially. It looked like the boy was autistic rather than practicing praying mantis. (apologies if he actually was)

I'll just say I've had my experience with frauds in the past. There is a common trend. They each make up the silliest unverifiable stories for lineage and they each are masters of 4 or 5+ styles. Red flags everywhere! They usually make me sick but SD is amazing. It's crazy how widespread it has gotten. Usually frauds can only keep one low-key school in a small town. Rarely do they grow into huge schools in big cities, and rarely do they branch out across the US.

I always thought, if frauds want to get away with it, why not make a more simple story and focus on just one style. But SD is a good one for up and coming frauds to look up to.

Anyway I'm not concerned with it. I just want to express my admiration for this guy's genius. He actually got people to fall for it and even spread across the country. Simply amazing!

[Green Cloud]

Jp, I think the problem is that SD is so obscure that it's easier to judge a book by it's cover based on the limmited info that's out there. People are just getting the wrong impression.

You have to admit it's kind of strange that such a large organization with what over 100 schools not to have more info or should I say a better representation of the style.

I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but take my style for instance lama kung fu for instance. It doesn't get any more obscure than that. There are just a handful of schools teaching the style but we have tons of info pics and vids out there.

I think if you educate the public on SD it wouldn't get so much flack, but right now people can only go on what they see. In todays world when a style is a secret it usualy means that there is something to hide.

greencloud.net

[Blacktiger]

Jp, I think the problem is that SD is so obscure that it's easier to judge a book by it's cover based on the limmited info that's out there. People are just getting the wrong impression.

You have to admit it's kind of strange that such a large organization with what over 100 schools not to have more info or should I say a better representation of the style.

I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but take my style for instance lama kung fu for instance. It doesn't get any more obscure than that. There are just a handful of schools teaching the style but we have tons of info pics and vids out there.

I think if you educate the public on SD it wouldn't get so much flack, but right now people can only go on what they see. In todays world when a style is a secret it usualy means that there is something to hide.

greencloud.net

I think thats just it. Its a mish mash of everything - like an all you can eat kung fu style and I thinks thats why people slam it, no real tradition.

[Judge Pen]

If you go back and look at this forum, we discussed those vids in detail. You will see that I critiqued them pretty harshly too. They were our forms, but most of them (there were a couple of exceptions) were horrible. Lazy practitioners. No quality control. Sacrificing the fundamentals for a bit of flash. Not that I'm the most gifted practitioner either, but I do ok. If you ever get to knoxville, I'll be more than glad to show my stuff. Ask anyone here who has met me. I get around at least in the southeast.

Also, if you look at this forum, you will see that one of the largest complaints I have with my own style is the sheer number of forms that are taught too quickly. Some schools just teach too much extra stuff. I knew green sashes from other styles that had more "extra" material than I did after practing for 15 years. It's not that the material isn't good, but its taught and people don't take the time to get really good at one form before moving on to another. The result? All their forms look the same!

I don't think my style is a fraud. I certainly think that there are myths and tall tales about the lineage (things get exagerrated at times) but I see that from a lot of well-respected styles too. So I can over-look that.

You can complain about the websites, but those things are up to the indivudal schools. All I can do is talk about what I know. I've done forms in public. I've been judged in open tournaments. Some good and some bad. I do what I can to be realistic about me and my style. I'll answer any question you guys have.

[Crushing Fist]

call it a "mish mash"

in a way its undeniable... its not one style and only one style.

but I'll tell you what I was told,"there is a method to the madness"

the material SD teaches was selected for a reason by someone who I have a lot of respect for.

The proof of the "method to the madness" is self-evident to me in my own experience. that is I have not ever, anywhere seen such impressive displays of martial skill. I've seen better gymnastics, and prettier forms... but there is a jaw-dropping wow-factor when I see the masters of SD perform. The Master I know best (Senior Master Grooms) has such amazing martial skill that it is its own proof. If it was a complete fraud then how could he be such an excellent fighter?

All the demos I've seen from SD masters just blow me away.


scaggs has no idea how right he is about its inventor being a genius, just not in the way he means.


how can an obvious fraud become so popular scaggs wonders?


how indeed...


certainly I agree that SD suffers from certain image problems, which is unfortunate... and due to the policy of not allowing filming of masters demos it seems unlikely that this particular matter will change. but it does seem that some higher up people are attempting to address the image issue.

but for anyone who has any actual interest in this topic, find an SD master, any SD master, and I guarantee you will be impressed.

[Golden Tiger]

All the demos I've seen from SD masters just blow me away.

Careful now, you are going to make this old man blush


Welcome to the party ricky. And I have to ask, is that your real name or are you just a big fan?

[rickyscaggs]

I can usually watch a form for the form itself. Not just for how the person does it. I can tell from the form how it is supposed to look or how it could be much better if done correctly. Even if I don't know the form, I can see the potential. That's not very difficult. And I didn't talk about anyone imperticular. The people would make the forms look different but the forms would make the people look the same. They're doing the same movements. And from what I saw, the forms were so easily identifiable as fraud. Every fraud I've ever seen, besides the few real forms they picked up somewhere they all make up their own forms and you can always tell. They do a bunch of meaningless stuff this way, turn around and do some goofy stuff that way, kick backward, front roll, punch this way, kick that way, act like a tiger with no sort of sense, etc.. It's completely made up crap to me. I've seen it too many times. And it's always something "basic" because the higher stuff you have to learn in dark caves away from human beings because it's super secret and super deadly.

The Master I know best (Senior Master Grooms) has such amazing martial skill that it is its own proof. If it was a complete fraud then how could he be such an excellent fighter?

Good fighters are born, not learned.

I've seen students with no prior experience go to a fraud school and learn a bunch of crap but actually be able to do it well and beat the teachers, because all they needed was the experience with fighting for their natural skills to come out. It had absolutely nothing to do with the fraud crap they were learning. If you have two arms and two legs with natural skill, that's all you need. A little experience and you're good to go. You don't even need martial arts training. There are many students of real martial arts who would get whooped by guys who haven't stepped foot in a gym but had fight experience. They didn't need to learn any techniques.

[rickyscaggs]

Welcome to the party ricky. And I have to ask, is that your real name or are you just a big fan?

Neither actually. Small fan maybe.

[Blacktiger]

I dont know if this has been suggested as I have not read this whole thread but why dont some of the people who are in support of this style post some links to some footage showing forms or applications etc.

All the other kung fu style forums run threads of this nature why not SD?