Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[One student]

what sin the didn't realize was kung fu was already in america decades before he or even bruce lee showed up on the scene.

What makes you say he "didn't realize" what else was in America at the time -- other than what was obvious? I suspect you have no basis for saying that and are guessing. He may have "realized" or may not have, or more likely didn't care. He just started teaching what he was taught, or what he knew, or what he could, or what he chose to. And called it at first what everyone else was calling everything else -- to the extent anyone was public with it what they were doing at all: "karate."

I'm sure there were private, maybe even underground schools, teaching only to ethnic Chinese and in Chinese communities (at least that's what Bruce Lee's bio-pic said he got in trouble for breaching). And they may well have told their students it was Hung Gar, or CLF, or Shaolin, or who knows what. Maybe didn't call it anything. But I'll bet a lot of them didn't even use the term "kung fu" until much later. But I could be wrong.

[bodhi warrior]

The point being, it turned out to be a traditional kung fu style (Tiger Crane?) plus Tai Chi. The speaker, now a renowned teacher in Washington DC, specifically made the comment that in those days no one ever heard of kung fu so everyone called all martial arts "karate."

And later, the same guy renamed his school, "Shaolin Wu Shu."

Exactly! That's the point I was making. Sin and Hiang were ripped for calling their Chinese art karate.

[hskwarrior]

What makes you say he "didn't realize" what else was in America at the time -- other than what was obvious? I suspect you have no basis for saying that and are guessing.

because i'm telling you. thats how i know. you can suspect what you please. doesn't mean you're correct. I suspect you have zero basis to counter me with anything other than arrogant doubt. thats why you wear a gi while calling yourself kung fu.

or what he chose to

yeah, what he chose to. whether he made it up or learned it from some book. thats a GREAT SIFU right there.

But I'll bet a lot of them didn't even use the term "kung fu" until much later. But I could be wrong.

how much are you willing to bet? we were THE first in America in regards to gung fu schools. WE know whats what and who's who. they all came after us. so, just accept it, you're wrong.

[Syn7]

I'm sure like most things it's regional. The point is, if you're trying to explain something you use whatever language conveys the idea easiest.

Witness the dumbing down and laziness of the uninformed!!!

I couldn't disagree more.

I can't even begin to imagine how fucked we would be if everyone subscribed to such standards.

[MasterKiller]

Witness the dumbing down and laziness of the uninformed!!!

I couldn't disagree more.

I can't even begin to imagine how fucked we would be if everyone subscribed to such standards.

Afterall, that's how they ended up with a form called Golden Cyborg...

[hskwarrior]

Golden Cyborg.

please please please tell me thats a fukkin joke.

[Syn7]

The real sad part is that the state of SD is so horrible that you just aren't sure. lol

[sean_stonehart]

It's their transliteration of

Jin Gang Dao Dui (Buddha's Warrior Attendant Pounds Mortar)

from their interpretation of Chenshi Xinjia Yi Lu

[Leto]

I guess Sin The didn't know how to translate Jin Gang, he thought it was like the shaolin bronze men from the movies or something, like a magical golem made of gold. He's got some other wacky translations, too, some from misreading characters and some just from not being very good at English, maybe.
It is a difficult thing to translate, especially for someone who isn't Buddhist, and also doesn't know English very well. If you walked up to some random Chinese people and showed them those two charaters (jin gang), I wonder what they'd say it was. maybe "hard as metal" or something.

[Judge Pen]

How bout Indonesian-American Martial arts with a liberal smattering of mish mash from various other styles to fill the demand gap they clearly have/had.

I can go with that.

[Judge Pen]

I'd bet against this. Not because I think Sin The is not a liar. He is. I just don't think that the system will bog down because of it. Most of the schools that are splitting were already calling themselves Chinese Shaolin Centers or Shaolin Tao schools any way; the Georgia and Tennessee contingents were already wearing Sams instead of gis. The SD core is Kentucky/Ohio/Texas and that core has already bought Bill Leonard's BS explanation for the lawsuit and moved on.

Frankly, I'd hate it if SD guys changed the schools' names, started wearing SAMs and started flowering up the moves (the Colorado contingent already tried flowering the moves and they've got Jake Mace to show for it). I just wish they'd come clean about the origins and call the style what it actually is. I don't have any qualms with the non-stolen material.

But such is life. SD will still be around in its current form years in the future. After all, pro football players are willing to spend money on holographic stickers that divert cell phone waves and negatively charged water. That's way kookier than the SD origin story. America is a country full of undereducated consumers. That's why we love zombie movies.

What's wrong with zombie movies?

[Old Noob]

What's wrong with zombie movies?

Nothing, but I love them both ironically and non-ironically.

[Old Noob]

For any SDers who still read the threadjacked thread, do any of you have the Pa Kua lyrics? If so, I'd be much obliged if you'd be willing to PM them to me. Gracias!

[sean_stonehart]

For any SDers who still read the threadjacked thread, do any of you have the Pa Kua lyrics? If so, I'd be much obliged if you'd be willing to PM them to me. Gracias!

I've got a copy of JRQ's book in PDF format I'll send if you want, complete with illustrations, descriptions, etc...

[JSE]

I've got a copy of JRQ's book in PDF format I'll send if you want, complete with illustrations, descriptions, etc...

I would like those as well if you don't mind.