Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

For starters I am neither pro nor con-SD, never seen it and I doubt that I will ever do so.

The main issues that people seem to have with SD seem to be the following:

1.) Su Kong Tai Djin and his looks.
2.) Claiming to be the most comprehensive art.
3.) Claiming it to be true Shaolin KF.
4.) At one stage the style called itself karate.
5.) Usage of japanese terminology and training cothing.
9.) Claiming that 1 person knows and remembers 900 Forms.
10.) Belt ranking structure
11.) Mix of forms/styles per rank.

For the most part I see most of the above points as advertising and minor pet-peeves by a few guys on here.
I have seen similar claims and statements made by literally dozens of arts.

What got the guys on here realy riled up when a swarm of SD guys came over here to defend their system, started to attack the guys on here and started to bad-mouth this forum.

Personally I found the attitude shown by a few SD & ex-SD-guys to be very immature and not becoming of MA.

If the guys that train at SD are happy that is good enough for me and if they can get what they learn to work for them all more power to them.

I as a traditionalist personally don't like systems with many forms and personally rather study a few forms and work on them over a long time.

IME, if you learn too many forms from too many systems it will show.
i.e. If your base is lets say TKD, it will flavour the other styles forms you learn.
It is very hard to keep them separate and takes a lot of work and dedication to do so.

Thus I wouldn't expect a form done by a SD student to look/feel the same way that lets say a Chen TJQ form would look if the student only studied Chen TJQ.

Just some thoughts on the topic.

[Brad]

A few corrections(in bold):

1.) Su Kong Tai Djin and his looks. and the problem that no one else seems to have any mention of this guy... a grandmaster of all Shaolin who looked like that would kind of stand out
2.) Claiming to be the most comprehensive art.
3.) Claiming it to be true Shaolin KF.
4.) At one stage the style called itself karate.
5.) Usage of japanese terminology and training cothing.
9.) Claiming that 1 person knows and remembers 900 Forms.from 50 different, often unrelated, systems
10.) Belt ranking structure
11.) Mix of forms/styles per rank.
12.)There's also all the very poor(performance wise) videos on the net

[themeecer]

Originally posted by T'ai Ji Monkey
What got the guys on here realy riled up when a swarm of SD guys came over here to defend their system, started to attack the guys on here and started to bad-mouth this forum.

I'm not sure which time you were speaking of, but a few came over when I first started posting here. It wasn't us attacking the guys here, it was totally the other way around. We respectfully debated them for a while. I have recently just given up on them, though. I am of the mindset of, screw them, I could care less what they thought. I will drop in if a good discussion is going on but for the most part, I have found this forum to be a huge waste of time, and nothing more. Some people find joy in putting others down and seeing how many people they can tick off. I do not, that only creates more stress in life.

One good thing, I have found some of the ones that were totally bad mouthing us to have come around and are actually having friendly debate. For all the rest ... bleh. Actually, I am happy for them that they find such joy in putting others down. Good for them. If that is what makes them happy, they should do that.

edit: This shouldn't seem like an attack on you TJM, because it is not. This is just a posting of my "matter of fact" attitude I have developed about this forum and some of its posters.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Bluesman
I have been told by other SD people that they also agree with you on #12. Never seen them myself. The Tennesse school is ran by a skilled martial artist. Any that he had would be good.

Bluesman,

Let me say that in you few posts you have said more then in my hundreds. I appreciate your tone and the knowledge that you have shown here.

I am a student os Master Mullins and his oldest son Mike. I have been on this forum for a while as I discovered it by accident. I have seen all of the debate on SD (as well as SD posters come and go) and I have come to realize two things: 1) We do authentic kung fu albeit adapted and evolved through time and geography; and 2) Some people here have excellent points and criticisms, and some will never see SD as anything more than a pretender CMA intended to rob the ignorant of its money. It is to the first catagory that I enjoy conversing with as it helps me learn and understand more of my own art.

There are bad repesentations on the net and there are some good ones. There is quite a bit of exageration and ego displayed by a small mintority of SD students that gets passed of as the norm and not as the exception. More importantly, there are a lot of ignorance and misinformation about what we are taught that is prevelent on most all levels of students in SD. Grand Master Sin The is a very intelligent man and a gifted martial artist. I have the utmost respect for him. Things were taught by him for a reason and if we are dilligent, we will become talented martial artists; however, our forms will not look like someone who simply studies the one style. We will be well-rounded, but the subtleties of different styles will be lost even as we make our best attempts to preserve them. That is a danger in training in more than one style which is what we, as SD students, do when we learn different forms from different systems. I don't think this is a bad thing as it was intended by GM Sin, but it lends ammunition to the most ardent SD detractors in forums like this.

As an intermediate SD student, I want to learn as much as I can about our art and its place in CMA. The fear is by asking certain questions you will be labeled as being disrespectful to GM Sin and the senior Masters. I look forward to your posts and I'll chime in when I feel my limited training may provide a perspective useful to these discussions.

JP

[Vash]

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This should be better than the Ross v Abel fight!

[crazymaddrunk]

Immature and not becoming of MA? Let's look at a statement you made:

"What got the guys on here realy riled up when a swarm of SD guys came over here to defend their system, started to attack the guys on here and started to bad-mouth this forum."

you stupid MA wannabe, why would we have to swarm over here and DEFEND our system to start with if some other jerks weren't on here already BAD-MOUTHING SD????? You stupid SOB, you sound just like a Democrat with your double-talk...

I've already challenged some folks on this board, they never showed. Come on TaiJip monkey, I challenge you. Bring on your traditional Taiji, I'll whip your a$$ with Sparring Techniques 1-15 only (by the way, that's from the SD curriculum). Quit whining and let's get down to business. PM me and we can work out the details.

[KC Elbows]

The problem with the "there's a small but vocal minority in our group that are loudmouths and cause trouble and the rest of us get lumped in with them" defense is that you have to recognize when it's the case with others. I've hardly seen a majority of members of this forum even talking about SD, yet somehow the whole forum gets lumped together with the small group who speaks against it.

For example, judge's pen and SD are members, crazymaddrunk is a troll. I recognize that all three practice SD, but treat all three completely differently. Yet, when themeecer says "I will drop in if a good discussion is going on but for the most part, I have found this forum to be a huge waste of time, and nothing more...", applying it to the kfo community as a whole, I find it somewhat high handed, and when he goes to SD forums to complain about this forum, I wonder how he is defining "wasting time" that excludes that behavior.

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

Originally posted by crazymaddrunk
Come on TaiJip monkey, I challenge you. Bring on your traditional Taiji, I'll whip your a$$ with Sparring Techniques 1-15 only (by the way, that's from the SD curriculum). Quit whining and let's get down to business. PM me and we can work out the details.

Yeah, sure.

First you need to go and visit your bank to draw travel expense.
Flying halfway around the world is not cheap and you will need a hotel reservation too.


Come on and bring your SD to me, or PAY me to come to YOU.

If you don't want to come here, I can suggest neutral territory like australia and you can take the KFM guys over there on too.

Lets get it on, big mouth.

[crazymaddrunk]

I should have known that you were from some other useless country.

I'll come there on ONE condition, you set me up with your fine a$$ mother when I beat you, that way I can slap her around for having an ingrate know-it-all b!tch like yourself. Then I could give her a son worthy of living.

Hey, KC "on your knees"- I no longer practice SD, I train Hung Gar. and as far as me being a troll, I never liked that Lord of the Rings crap. Anyway stfu...

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

Originally posted by crazymaddrunk
I should have known that you were from some other useless country.

Ahah, chickening out already.

I'll come there on ONE condition, you set me up with your fine a$$ mother when I beat you, that way I can slap her around for having an ingrate know-it-all b!tch like yourself. Then I could give her a son worthy of living.

Naah, she would kick your butt too, to be honest I might have to fight her to see who gets to slap you around first.

[KC Elbows]

Not your best work, but a 4.1 for trying.

[joedoe]

Originally posted by T'ai Ji Monkey


Yeah, sure.

First you need to go and visit your bank to draw travel expense.
Flying halfway around the world is not cheap and you will need a hotel reservation too.


Come on and bring your SD to me, or PAY me to come to YOU.

If you don't want to come here, I can suggest neutral territory like australia and you can take the KFM guys over there on too.

Lets get it on, big mouth.

Bring it on. We are coming into Summer here so the weather will be good and the beaches are enticing. I'll get the lads together

[joedoe]

Originally posted by crazymaddrunk
I should have known that you were from some other useless country.

I'll come there on ONE condition, you set me up with your fine a$$ mother when I beat you, that way I can slap her around for having an ingrate know-it-all b!tch like yourself. Then I could give her a son worthy of living.

Hey, KC "on your knees"- I no longer practice SD, I train Hung Gar. and as far as me being a troll, I never liked that Lord of the Rings crap. Anyway stfu...

CMD do you try to be offensive all the time or is that just natural for you?

[Brad]

Actually, I think it's his attempt at flirting My guess is that he's a closet h omosexual with a fetish for men with accents. But being raised in a ultra-conservative Republican familly that views h omosexuality as a sin, he has come to dispise himself for the feelings he can't control. This, naturaly, leads him to take out his frustrations on those that inspire the highly erotic fantasies he has when he's alone... foreign men with sexy accents.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by T'ai Ji Monkey

If you don't want to come here, I can suggest neutral territory like australia and you can take the KFM guys over there on too.

Lets get it on, big mouth.

Yep, I'll be in that too. Bring it on Crazy Mad Dickhead!