Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[kwaichang]

There are alot of things that happen that are not in historic books or records not a valid point and most of shaolin had to do with the abbots more than the fighting monks as far as succession and history remember TaMO

[cho]

and the hairy guy that happend to master the "full" Shaolin system just slipped out of the history books???
The last surviving master of all the Shaolin arts, who managed to have his photo taken, just wasn't worth bothering to be written about?

Radhnoti: I think what Royal Dragon is saying is that SD doesn't look like any kung fu based from Shaolin he's seen. Not the styles that are there now or any other that has evolved outside the temple.

[Radhnoti]

Cho,
I'm just saying that no one is going to get far comparing SD to other styles as a critique. Lots of possible answers to that particular "attack".
1. "Well, this person or that said ours is good/old/traditional kungfu."
2. "Ours is the REAL stuff...before shaolin was turned into a performance art."
3. "Theirs has been altered, since they didn't get the full system."
4. "GM Sin has been teaching our material since the late '60s...stuff that they now teach as shaolin as "traditional". Where'd he get it all before the days of video and books with the forms step by step?"

It's just an avenue that's been followed up and down a million times...


Cho - "and the hairy guy that happend to master the "full" Shaolin system just slipped out of the history books???
The last surviving master of all the Shaolin arts, who managed to have his photo taken, just wasn't worth bothering to be written about?"

True. Not to mention that no other style seems to have mentioned him in their oral traditions either. Again, it's not like there are no other styles claiming to descend from the Southern Shaolin temple...if such a GM existed it's almost certain that some other style would have (at the minimum) one story of the "hairy monk".

Without GM Su you possibly have GM Ie travelling around the orient collecting martial information, some of which probably would/could/might have originated at Shaolin.
Which brings you back to a historic connection to shaolin, even if you assume the "transmission" was incomplete. Lots of styles of kuntao/silat claim a connection to Shaolin from what I've been able to dig up...

[cerebus]

Oh, and by the way, what's with SDers always claiming that Sin couldn't have learned from books 'cause there weren't any such books around when he was young? Hong Kong has been mass producing such instruction manuals since the '50s. Cheap, paperbacks that have sold all over SE Asia.

And since Sin The's forms look like they're being done by a Karate guy who learned them from books, I'm guessing that this is exactly the case.

[Ground Dragon]

Sure, I think a connection to shaolin could be argued, in fact I think there is a connection on some level. But what ticks folks off is when the argument is made that shaolin-do is the true transmission of the shaolin arts and what other people practice is the flowery wu shu crap.
Shaolin-do has propped up Su Kong as some end all, be all grandmaster who was able to gather all of the arts of shaolin and master them and pass them on. The truth is probably something closer to him being one of several teachers for Ie Chang Ming as Ie's own letters acknowledge his travels through different parts of Asia. And on another note, it cannot be denied that Ie was not the only teacher in Indonesia.

[wdl]

The truth is probably something closer to him being one of several teachers for Ie Chang Ming as Ie's own letters acknowledge his travels through different parts of Asia. And on another note, it cannot be denied that Ie was not the only teacher in Indonesia.

Yes, that has been a contention of mine for a long time, and I think a reasonable train of thought. It is not unusual either for a Chinese MA that came out of Indonesia to be a hodgepodge of styles. The question is whether or not "Kun Dao" as a term applies. But what is "Kun Dao" can it as a term be used interchanibly with Kung Fu? Especially if a Kun Dao style traces lineage back to Shaolin. I think a symentic discussion of whether or not Kun Dao and Kung Fu are synonyms is in order.

-Will

[cerebus]

So many poor, ignorant individuals with their heads stuck deep in the sand (by their own choice, no less). This is sad.

[Fred Sanford]

Yes kuntao is chinese kung fu. kuntao is a hokkien word.

speaking in generalities Shaolin-do may meet the definition of kuntao as any chinese martial art in indonesia would be called kuntao.

The big question really is this.......Is shaolin-do actually chinese kung fu? Seems doubtful at best.

[wdl]

So where does this disconnect between "Chinese Kung Fu" and "Chinese Martial Art" lie?

-Will

[Fred Sanford]

So where does this disconnect between "Chinese Kung Fu" and "Chinese Martial Art" lie?

as far as I've always known the two terms are interchangable and that's how I use them. they mean the same thing.

[kwaichang]

Cerebus tread your profile only 11 years not much time there so you know all about Shaolin and CMA OOOOOH I dont think so , sorry

[cerebus]

LOL!! 11 years? 11 years what? Where on my profile do you come up with 11 years for anything?? Have you even started learning math yet junior? Yeah, that's what I thought. Have a nice day...

[cerebus]

And coming from someone who's too afraid to even post anything on their profile, it's even more amusing. Bow down before your SD idols and accept everything they say at face value because they ARE your sole source of info on the martial arts so they MUST be right. What a classic loser...

[Brad]

kwaichang... this is 2005 2 more years and he'll be qualified to be Shaolin grandmaster

[cerebus]

LOL! Geez, I hope not!