Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Crushing Step]

Is this it?

http://youtu.be/V5c5-n9n4T0

[hskwarrior]

thats choy lee fut 5 animals.

[Crushing Step]

thats choy lee fut 5 animals.

From the first post in this thread:

This is a reply that is constructive and slightly long-winded and not succinct.
I am sure that some students traded or exchanged and perhaps even sold the five animal set. In this particular case I rather believe that the five animal was taken from my younger uncle’s book. One must understand that the book was not instructional but only informational. The book is full of photographic errors giving readers a slightly skewed view of the set unintentionally. Photographs by their nature are limited and can only show final positions and very little transitional movement. This is a key to understand and master this particular set.
In this day and age many people think that knowledge is available for free. Well go ahead and you will find that your journey will be void of true martial art skill. I must admit that if you practice the five animal set from any source you will feel great because even practicing the shell of the form has its benefits but understand clearly you will never reap the proper benefits of this form without true instruction.
I learned under Jew Sifu and have trained the five animal internal form for many years and can say it is truly a wonder I consider U-Ming to be one of the jewels of the CLF, HUNG SING style originating from Professor Lau Bun.

So U-Ming =/= Five Animal? Just looking for a point of reference.

[hskwarrior]

So U-Ming =/= Five Animal? Just looking for a point of reference.

Um/Ng (5) Ying (shapes)

[hskwarrior]

Ok, after some thinking about it, i'm going to post the section for section video for everyone to see. the authentic version is the old one in black and white. compare it to jakes video you will see the modifications they did. but jake clearly has no idea of what he is actually doing in his SHOTTY version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x2CeCv6XOs

[Judge Pen]

um, actually it is; Chow Ga is a distinct line, different from some lineages (e.g. - Jook Lum), but still clearly w/in the realm of Nam Tong Long

My bad, I thought he was referring to what Sin The was performing which was not Southern Mantis.

[Judge Pen]

[QUOTE=Crushing Step;1193156][QUOTE=Judge Pen;1193118]

That's "southern" mantis, which evolved completely separate from "northern" mantis, no relation at all, and I cannot really comment if it was good for southern mantis. Their interprettion of the mantis, I believe, is to use the hands in a whipping motion, possibly similar to the chun. I would ask a southern mantis practicioner for a better answer.



You do realize that I was commenting on this one right?

http://youtu.be/Rum8HfHYLRI

The one labelled "Southern Praying Mantis Kung Fu (Chow Gar): Um Gen Sau Form"?

If that's not southern mantis I stand corrected.

No that was my bad. I thought you were saying SD did Southen mantis. Sorry.

[Judge Pen]

the following is what i believe sums up the true TCMA perspective in regards to Shaolin Do. I feel they should all read this and understand why we feel the way we do.



BRUCE This is you right? now, see, this right there is more believable than anything i've seen in Shaolin Do from top to bottom. your movement is much better as well.

But see, that was SD. That was Bruce with Master Reid. Bruce has worked really hard in his training and its application, but not all that is taught in SD isn't bad. This is the point. You can find a lot of bad in it, but the people that defend it are usually either delusional or the ones that had good teachers, that worked hard and made it work for them, and the ones that don't let the lies and the phoney history spoin what they learned. And many of the good ones either ignore the lies or move on when they can't take it anymore.

[Judge Pen]

Mr Reiter, all games aside. the above statement is one of the most heartfelt ones i've read on this whole topic. and i feel for you as one of its descendants. and i agree, things would be so much better if SIN THE just issued a statement with an apology along with the truth i'm sure the rest of the TCMA world would eventually forgive and forget. you can't go wrong with the truth.

i hope you can see my position as well. My lineage knows that the 5 animal form as seen by jake's video is our form. we know there aren't any other schools that teach this specific form. sure, many schools have 5 animal forms. but no one looks the same. still, the rest of the martial arts community knows this form is from our lineage. no one has ever seen anything close to it and its framework.

There isn't a need for Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut to fight over a form we know to be ours. beyond the shadow of a doubt. but since your lineage has absorbed it via the book by DFW, all i want is its proper recognition. your lineage already practices it and is probably being spread today.

as long as YOU and YOUR students know the authentic source for this form isn't SHAOLIN DO all i can do is ask YOU to do is do whats right. honor the form and its true source. give my lineage its proper respect as its source. and i promise you you would make a good friends. just try to see things from my position just for a moment.

pls know this tho, if you want to act like the others here and keep trying to twist the truth to be in favor of Shaolin Do, then i'm not sure we can be cool. pls understand my position.

and, my offer extends to you as well, if you know the form and want the proper way of doing it, im sure my sifu will work out something.

Frank. (notice the HSK is missing).

Frank, thank you for those sentiments. That's all I can ask of anyone that learns that the bulk of my training was SD. I can defend my training, the applications and skill set that I learned and the character/ethics of most of my teachers. I cannot defend the lies that have been told. I tell people what I think the origins of what I learned truly are (even if it differs from the story that is being told by others) and if they are not cool with that, it's there problem. Your a passionate guy and I can tell you get hot and bothered about all the BS that gets thrown around here, but if the above quote is your honest assesment, then you and I have no problems.

[hskwarrior]

But see, that was SD. That was Bruce with Master Reid. Bruce has worked really hard in his training and its application, but not all that is taught in SD isn't bad. This is the point. You can find a lot of bad in it, but the people that defend it are usually either delusional or the ones that had good teachers, that worked hard and made it work for them, and the ones that don't let the lies and the phoney history spoin what they learned. And many of the good ones either ignore the lies or move on when they can't take it anymore.

all i really care about is justice for my lineage in regards to our 5 animal form. i don't really care about other styles or what they teach. if shaolin do wants to claim shaolin that's their choice. but when you step on our toes and rip us off like that you're messing with the wrong people. you cannot have our form just because SIN THE bought the book. personally, i feel doc fai wong should NEVER have printed that form in a book. now look at what happened.

[hskwarrior]

Frank, thank you for those sentiments. That's all I can ask of anyone that learns that the bulk of my training was SD. I can defend my training, the applications and skill set that I learned and the character/ethics of most of my teachers. I cannot defend the lies that have been told. I tell people what I think the origins of what I learned truly are (even if it differs from the story that is being told by others) and if they are not cool with that, it's there problem. Your a passionate guy and I can tell you get hot and bothered about all the BS that gets thrown around here, but if the above quote is your honest assesment, then you and I have no problems.

i am being my real self here. yeah im mad as hell another school had the nerve to take our form and not give us credit. but in the end, its not my name or my schools reputation that has to suffer for it.

all i am asking for is straight up honesty from here on out. for shaolin do leaders to send out an email about this form and instruct their instructors to tell the true history regardless of what others might think. Like the ones who came before you DON'T continue the lies. Tell people that Shaolin Do was most likely created by Sin The. Be honorable. be honest. IMPROVE YOUR SKILLS. be HONEST .....did i say BE HONEST?

[brucereiter]

the following is what i believe sums up the true TCMA perspective in regards to Shaolin Do. I feel they should all read this and understand why we feel the way we do.



BRUCE This is you right? now, see, this right there is more believable than anything i've seen in Shaolin Do from top to bottom. your movement is much better as well. now your knife/fan video.... teasin. you said yourself you know you made mistakes. do you work with live blades as well? i prefer live blades.

the fan is one of the forms sin the claims is a chen form passed shaolin ... i learned it and got a few good things from it but have left that one behind. i have since done some knife training with some "qualified" teachers. man i would hate to be attacked with a knife. scary.

yes that is me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMrLT...3&feature=plcp

[brucereiter]

all i am asking for is straight up honesty from here on out. for shaolin do leaders to send out an email about this form and instruct their instructors to tell the true history regardless of what others might think. Like the ones who came before you DON'T continue the lies. Tell people that Shaolin Do was most likely created by Sin The. Be honorable. be honest. IMPROVE YOUR SKILLS. be HONEST .....did i say BE HONEST?

agreed. but i would add honesty about all off it.

[One student]

and for once, the old SD saw of "well, those people demoing weren't representative of SD" doesn't hold water, bec those were demos Sin The participated in; meaning that the people he had demo were who he thought best represented the system; and they suked; and they look like pretty much the way all other SD forms on YT look as well...

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For those regional seminars, GMS does not pick the demo'ers, they are picked locally and generally volunteer. It is as much a social activity as anything else. Not to justify quality of the performer, just not the process you think it is.

[hskwarrior]

the fan is one of the forms sin the claims is a chen form passed shaolin ... i learned it and got a few good things from it but have left that one behind. i have since done some knife training with some "qualified" teachers. man i would hate to be attacked with a knife. scary.

i feel you on that. my older brother was stabbed in the chest and it ripped across and into his bicep.

One of my former students while training under me got surrounded and stabbed by 6-7 guys. he was stabbed that many times as well. my student attributed the lack of serious depth of the stabs to his natural reflexes developed from always flinching and avoiding my chop choys. he was more afraid of those than knives LOL. but he handled them and is luckily alive.

because of my escrima experience we practice with live blades. love that feeling of fear of being cut for real while training.