Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Judge Pen]

looks made up.

1. Not according to Sal; and
2. Everything was at some point, but by whom?

[bawang]

1. Not according to Sal; and
2. Everything was at some point, but by whom?

the form is a mish mash of moves from different styles.

sin the probably chopped up forms from books and rearranged them.

[Judge Pen]

the form is a mish mash of moves from different styles.

sin the probably chopped up forms from books and rearranged them.

I think Sal's observations are more credible, but for argument's sake, what specific moves and styles can you observe in this form?

[bawang]

i have to agree

you do know they have stolen choy lee fut moves in that "tai chi" form? but its so badly butchered its not recognizable.

I think Sal's observations are more credible, but for argument's sake, what specific moves and styles can you observe in this form?

keep disrespecting me and i will break it down for thousands of martial artists to read. i have no problem exposing and humiliating defilers of shaolin. i love it when you talk dirty to me.

[Judge Pen]

JP,

Do you have any chinese sources for this form or just from your lineage?



i have to agree

All I have is what my teacher told me about it when he taught it (that it is related to tai chi, but not one of the major tai chi lineages) and what Sal said about it in another forum and I have seen video from Bandung Indonesia from 1992 of students there doing this and other forms that are taught in SD. I freely admit that Sin The has lied and stolen forms, but because of the students in Indonesia doing these forms independant of Sin The I think this is one of the forms that was actually taught at Sin's school in Indonesia.

If someone found a book or a video of this form (like Hung Sing's 5 Animal form) then I may revise my opinions.

[Judge Pen]

"Not that I want to ever defend Sin The's stuff, but I have seen this exact some form being done by another Chinese lineage not related to Sin The whatsoever. They most have this confused.

It's is a southern Chinese style set, it happens to be called "Taji Quan" it is not related to what we know as Taiji Quan from the Chen, Yang, Wu, Hao, etc., styles.

It is karate like in that southern style as well. The name of the style was Southern Shaolin LONG Fist, the other sets were karate like, as many Five Ancestor's southern styles as well, that were the ancestors to Okinanwan Karate."

Sal Canzonieri quote from another forum in discussing a video of Gary Grooms doing the "Buddha Fist" form which was one of the forms demonstrated by one of the Indonesian students in Bandung in 1992.

Ok guys, please comment on what Sal said. Do you disagree? If so, why?

[bawang]

Ok guys, please comment on what Sal said. Do you disagree? If so, why?

sal said its a syncretic indonesian form which shaolin do claims is taichi, and also tries pathetically to do it like tai chi. what he said is possible.

either way it still is a fraud.

[Judge Pen]

sal said its a syncretic indonesian form which shaolin do claims is taichi, and also tries pathetically to do it like tai chi. what he said is possible.

either way it still is a fraud.

"I have seen this exact some form being done by another Chinese lineage not related to Sin The whatsoever."

"It's is a southern Chinese style set, it happens to be called "Taji Quan" it is not related to what we know as Taiji Quan from the Chen, Yang, Wu, Hao, etc., styles.

It is karate like in that southern style as well. The name of the style was Southern Shaolin LONG Fist, the other sets were karate like, as many Five Ancestor's southern styles as well, that were the ancestors to Okinanwan Karate."


There is plenty to criticize Sd, their usage without credit of Hung Sing 5AF being one of the most egregious, but Sal did not call this form a fraud.

[Judge Pen]

yo don't gemme started



i mean outside of bandung. I have an ex girlfriend who lives, and was born and raised in Bandung.

I think the key to sorting out what is legitimate from Sin The lineage is whatever vestiges of his school that is left in Bandung. We know SD isn't what he is trying to pass off here, but I'd like to know what he started with in Bandung.

[Judge Pen]

the form is called fut gar kuen.

-fut gar is a cantonese style with no links to indonesia, but has printed books in asia

-fut gar is not a form, it is a style

-fut gar has no northern movements

But that form is not "Fut Gar" despite it's name. Do you know of a book that has that particular form reprinted? If so, I'd love to see it and would likely change my opinion.

[bawang]

But that form is not "Fut Gar" despite it's name. Do you know of a book that has that particular form reprinted? If so, I'd love to see it and would likely change my opinion.

first move of the form: great bird spreads wings. the salute in many clf forms.

second move: immortal bows to buddha. made up fake move.

third move: immortal lifts plate. this is fujian white crane technique

fourth move: lotus kick. this is a northern longfist techinque.

fifth move: beauty gazes at mirror (twisting stance). this is a signature clf technique.

(yang style taichi ground snake)

sixth move: karate back kick

(yang style tai chi grasping sparrow tail)

gazing at lake from shuai jiao (wat the fuk) can also be swallow drinks water from longfist

(half of chen style taichi sealing and closing)

[tattooedmonk]

No one said it was tai chi, it's the fist of the goddess of mercy , you know the bodhisattva !? It's done slow like tai chi and has internal elements and is believe in china to be the precursor to tai chi. It's Buddhist not Taoist. Dumb@$$3$.

[Judge Pen]

Sal doesn't think it is made up. He thinks it is a set from Southern Shaolin Long Fist and he has seen it before.

Certianly it has been changed and modified, but so was Lau Bun's Five Animal Fist.

[bawang]

go beyond that! if he stuff is really shaolin then it will be found within shaolin then. there has to be outside sources since it carries the shaolin name. if it stops at bandung then you are practicing a malaysian version of whatever. you can't claim shaolin but have nothing shaolin.

sin the might have continued the legacy of fraud from bandung, since the tai chi form from bandung is also made up.

Sal doesn't think it is made up. He thinks it is a set from Southern Shaolin Long Fist and he has seen it before.

Certianly it has been changed and modified, but so was Lau Bun's Five Animal Fist.

its a mix of yang style tai chi and choy lee fut with stolen lyrics slapped on the techniques

the moves are cut from various styles, and the lyrics are also cut from various styles and randomly assigned to the moves.

[Judge Pen]

go beyond that! if he stuff is really shaolin then it will be found within shaolin then. there has to be outside sources since it carries the shaolin name. if it stops at bandung then you are practicing a malaysian version of whatever. you can't claim shaolin but have nothing shaolin.

The form we have been discussing was identified by Sal Cazonei (sp) as a set from Southern Shaolin Longfist. I think there were Chinese sets (not necessairly Shaolin) that were then modified and combined with whatever other martial arts influences (JMA, IMA etc) that was prevelant when this stuff was being taught. I think that is the root of what Sin The learned and then he came to America, starting calling himself a grandmaster and teaching, modifying and borrowing whatever else he saw fit to market. I'd like to focus on what was originally taught in bandung, in whatever form, to understand the history of SD.