View Poll Results: What to do about the 'Is Shaolin-Do for real?' thread

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  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts!

    22 38.60%
  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Let all the S-D threads stand independently.

    13 22.81%
  • Keep IS-Dfr locked down. All IS-Dfr posters deserved to be punished.

    5 8.77%
  • Delete them all. Let Yama sort them out.

    17 29.82%
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Thread: Is Shaolin-Do for real?

  1. #151
    Radhnoti Guest
    Whoops, just caught your reply but it was a bit vague. Is this a breakaway group? You've SEEN their material? Why wouldn't the club GM Sin founded have followed him over? Why'd they add Ryu to the name? Any info you could add is appreciated.

    "That government is best which governs least." -- HENRY DAVID THOREAU

  2. #152
    Fu-Pow Guest
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Buddha Family Fist : 3 Months
    A high level Internal system from the Choi Li Fut system, that allows for cultivation of the chi, and places a premium on balance, leg strength, flexibility, and fluidity.
    Students will learn the form.
    [/quote]

    from the shaolincenter.com website.

    Ah...I see SD is teaching Choy Lay Fut now as well. Coincidentally, my sifu's contemporary Liu Si Hung just came out with this form on video...
    it is known as Fut Jeong Kuen or "Buddha Palm Fist"....hmmmmmmmmmmm......

    Fu-Pow



    "Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu does not encourage its students to abuse or harm others with no reason. Nevertheless, in times when Kung Fu must be performed, Choy Lay Fut requires the student to change from a gentleman into a fierce and cold fighter."

    -Lee Koon Hung,
    CLF:The Dynamic Art of Fighting

  3. #153
    NorthernMantis Guest
    Man I hope they don't catch on to my Grandmasters video or I'll really get mad. :mad: :mad: :eek: :eek: :eek:

    "Always be ready"

  4. #154
    Radhnoti Guest
    LOL
    Fu-Pow puts more effort into SD than some practicioners! I didn't even know that there WAS a shaolincenter.com . :D

    Um...NorthernMantis, GM Sin's website says he's doing a Mantis book right now. Just thought I'd prepare you...

    "That government is best which governs least." -- HENRY DAVID THOREAU

  5. #155
    BeiKongHui Guest
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Um...NorthernMantis, GM Sin's website says he's doing a Mantis book right now. Just thought I'd prepare you... [/quote]

    Is that coming out BEFORE or AFTER the movie they've been making about him since the 70's? ;)

    I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet, strange, I am ungrateful to these teachers.
    --Khalil Gibran

  6. #156
    illusionfist Guest
    Well i saw the Buddhist Fist form when i met with TWS and i can DEFINITELY say that it is not CLF oriented at all. The Shaolin Do clan says its of Chen style tai chi influence. It's done with an internal flavor and aside from the technique "jin gang dao dui' (often mistranslated as buddha grinds the mortar), there is no other chen influence.

    Since i have now seen two versions of this form, i can say that TWS plays it with the flavor for which it was intended. Then again he's a nei jia enthusiast, so this pollutes everything he does ;)

    Peace :D

  7. #157
    Fu-Pow Guest
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Well i saw the Buddhist Fist form when i met with TWS and i can DEFINITELY say that it is not CLF oriented at all. [/quote]

    I'm not making this up. I pulled that quote directly from the website.

    Fu-Pow



    "Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu does not encourage its students to abuse or harm others with no reason. Nevertheless, in times when Kung Fu must be performed, Choy Lay Fut requires the student to change from a gentleman into a fierce and cold fighter."

    -Lee Koon Hung,
    CLF:The Dynamic Art of Fighting

  8. #158
    Fish of Fury Guest

    a sincere question for TWS or Rad

    "ITS A SHAOLIN SCHOOL. not your shaolin school and certainly not the shaolin temple of today's shaolin school(communist wushu)." TWS

    what is your (or shaolin do's ) opinion of other traditional shaolin arts/schools.
    ie. i've seen other posters here claim that shaolin do considers all other traditional CMA/shaolin schools to be wushu or not as authentic as shaolin do, but i haven't seen a shaolin do guy make that claim directly.

    so...what do you think of the authenticity of other styles as compared to SD?

    __________________________________________________ _________________________ "I'm just trying to lull you into a genuine sense of security!"

  9. #159
    Radhnoti Guest

    Quantification of something abstract...

    Shaolin-Do is a big style, with (some say) 150+ schools. I'd say there are 150+ opinions about other styles. MY instructor thinks that everything has something to add and that the main thing is just to LEARN no matter the source. However, I've met instructors high in the organization who've implied that they feel differently. I put it down to "professional pride" (just start a "Who's style is best" thread on the main forum and see what you get), but I guess it could be considered smug. Especially if you were coming from a different style.
    So, to summarize, my instructor's opinion of other schools is high. But several high level SD black belts I've met have a low opinion of other styles.
    Now, on to authenticity. By this I assume you mean, "the one most similar to that originally taught at the temple". Grandmaster Su was said to be at the temple. He passed our style on to Grandmaster Ie, who then passed it down to Grandmaster Sin. That's just three generations that SD is removed from the temple. Based on this short, direct lineage the SD student is told that what he is taught is the closest to "authentic" shaolin. Obviously, things have been added to the system. But, yes, I think high level SD students/teachers feel the core of our system (the forms) is THE shaolin system. I, personally, don't really care how authentic or un-authentic it is...as long as it works. I don't think I've heard ANYONE is SD claim that EVERYTHING else is wushu. In fact, an article carried by KFQ told of an older monk at the shaolin temple standing up during a demo and doing a "traditional", not wushu, form which received a standing ovation from the SD students.
    Hope this helps. It's kind of difficult to quantify the attitude of numerous people, but I painted as clear a picture as I could...

    "That government is best which governs least." -- HENRY DAVID THOREAU

  10. #160
    The Willow Sword Guest

    Fish

    I cannot speak for those in my organization who feel that Sd is the original shaolin art. that is a Naive statement and makes them look foolish. you are going to find in our school as well as other schools blind followers and you are going to find dedicated practitioners. i do not question the authenticity of other styles,,even shaolin styles. I KNOW that SD is not the only true martial art out there. What seems to nick everyones testicles in this matter is that alot of SD'ers claim that what they do IS THE TRUE ORIGINAL SHAOLIN ART.i will sy that i think that what we do is closer to the original and TRUE principles of what shaolin was originally about. You know with my studies in history and my years as a martial artist i look at what the content of a system is,, and then i cross reference that to what i know to be true about the origins of the system ,,i then make a decision based on this and i come up with my conclusion,,,,simple right? i have said this time and time again that our origins are from Shaolin. (a fighting system) not a dance or performance oriented system(communist wushu). everyone judges the SD school by what they have tseen or taken and they say now that does not look like what i do,i take shaolin and this school does not have the same principles,,,,well kids how many shaolin styles are out there? lots,,and as we have seen with the history of shaolin it is not one unique art or system,,it is a collaboration of many different systems,,,,your shaolin is not going to be the same as my shaolin for obvious reasons,,being the teacher the lineage and the style,and most of all how you intepret the system. i dont go around and say well that school is a fake or a fraud,,and when i compare styles or systems i look for the fighting principles contained with in,,,i have 15 yrs experience so i know what to look for,,,so far what i have seen of most of the northern systems and some south,,is that it is a performance and a dance which is what modern wushu is now,,you try to do any of that stiff in a real fight and you are gonna get plastered on the pavement,,,,these arts are FIGHTING ARTS,,Not fantasy video game or crouching tiger hidden dragon movie martial arts.
    i come from a southern CMA background,,where fighting systems prevail,,,our school has roots at fukien temple... ill tell you this A true shaolin monk back in the day did not do a little mantis dance or monkey flip when his life was threatened by a brigand or a robber,,,think of how the dynamics of a fight unfolds itself. a fighting system comprises itself with the principles of clear DIRECT and simple techniques to get the job done,,the rest is just cardio aerobics. be patient kids,,november is not that far off :cool:
    Many Respects,Willow sword

    Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
    oh and,,,Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you are an a$.

    [This message was edited by The Willow Sword on 08-22-01 at 08:01 AM.]

  11. #161
    BeiKongHui Guest
    You know what though? Nobody's Shaolin looks like karate but yours now why is that? A unique interpretation of all those principals you think you know so much about? :rolleyes:

    I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet, strange, I am ungrateful to these teachers.
    --Khalil Gibran

  12. #162
    Radhnoti Guest
    Hmmm...the boards seem to be messing up for me. When I reposted my response I saw a response from TWS and BKH just after mine, so I deleted my second answer. Now I just see Fish's query again.
    Hope the boards straighten up...

    "That government is best which governs least." -- HENRY DAVID THOREAU

  13. #163
    Fu-Pow Guest

    And now for something totally bizarre.......

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If you operate a school affiliated with Grandmaster Sin Thé, and your school is not listed here, or you have information to add or correct, then please contact Herman Collins. Thanks!

    The SDA has organized the country into 14 areas. Although these areas are designated by number, six are named after the original Shaolin temples: Honan, WuTang, Omei San, Kwang Tung, Fukien and Hua Mountain; the seventh will be named in honor of Grandmaster Sin Kwang The's birth place, Bandung.Each region has an Area Vice President appointed by the President.

    Not all of the schools listed here are SDA affiliated; the ones that are have been marked with the "SDA hand".

    [/quote]

    You will be assimilated.

    Fu-Pow



    "Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu does not encourage its students to abuse or harm others with no reason. Nevertheless, in times when Kung Fu must be performed, Choy Lay Fut requires the student to change from a gentleman into a fierce and cold fighter."

    -Lee Koon Hung,
    CLF:The Dynamic Art of Fighting

  14. #164
    Silumkid Guest
    Just something to add re: the outward appearance of forms. I'll pick on Willow Sword a little bit here since he was very clear on his opinion.

    Many times, what a lot of people fail to realize is that forms are simply another training exercise. Willow, you did mention "knowing what to look for" in other forms and then said you have seen others that resemble dances. One form I will use to argue that point is Tan Tui. From outward appearance, Tan Tui can indeed look like a "showy, non-useful" form. What many do not realize is that Tan Tui is a form that trains the basics...stances, stance transitions, stretch kicks, hand combinations. If you were to perform the form as is in a fight, you would probably lose. But the techniques were made that way in the form to train your attributes and are easily adaptable to "real" combat. In fact, Tan Tui is, from what I have heard, an entire martial system unto itself according to the Muslims who created it.

    Judge not a book by it's cover, but rather it's contents.

    Amitabha!

    We are trained in wushu; we must protect the Temple!

  15. #165
    joedoe Guest
    When you say that SD is closer to Shaolin, closer than what?

    I don't know about other arts, but I have found that in the art I study the application of the form is not obvious. What may look like a useless movement may actually be a very applicable fighting technique once you know how to unlock the form. I don't know how people can judge a style's effectiveness simply from its forms.

    cxxx[]:::::::::::>
    What we do in life echoes in Eternity

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