Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Shaolin Wookie]

What level were you testing for? If it were black, you should have known these techniques. Where did you learn "silat" techniques?

I suppose that needs clarification--I'm not talking SD, here. My SD teacher also runs a kuntao-silat club on a monthly basis, with periodic extra training during the month. We do a lot of bladed work. I think I saw Sean at one of the first meetings, once, where we worked on the seven seeds of Harimau. I can't recall, though. I'd prefer to keep immediate names/lineages out of it (some is Suwanda, some is De Thouars), since I don't like dropping names in this trainwreck of a thread where everything comes under attack. I'm sure Sean would agree that much of Silat and kuntao is like kung fu, and much is not.

As for "knowing" techniques. A good cap requires some dextrous skill, and there's no capping in Tang Lang Quan. I know it from WM STP and Cha Chui, but I had just learned those forms. IT was my my 1st degree black belt exam (testing with all brown belt material), I think. PRobably 5 years ago. I cap quite a bit, now. It's a nice attack/setup, although you occasionally poke someone in the eye.

[Judge Pen]

For those who want to flame or reminisce, here's a photo taken at my first teacher's funeral of the students under him at the time (with Sin The in attendance). A very motley crew for certain.

[Judge Pen]

I suppose that needs clarification--I'm not talking SD, here. My SD teacher also runs a kuntao-silat club on a monthly basis, with periodic extra training during the month. We do a lot of bladed work. I think I saw Sean at one of the first meetings, once, where we worked on the seven seeds of Harimau. I can't recall, though. I'd prefer to keep immediate names/lineages out of it (some is Suwanda, some is De Thouars), since I don't like dropping names in this trainwreck of a thread where everything comes under attack. I'm sure Sean would agree that much of Silat and kuntao is like kung fu, and much is not.

As for "knowing" techniques. A good cap requires some dextrous skill, and there's no capping in Tang Lang Quan. I know it from WM STP and Cha Chui, but I had just learned those forms. IT was my my 1st degree black belt exam (testing with all brown belt material), I think. PRobably 5 years ago. I cap quite a bit, now. It's a nice attack/setup, although you occasionally poke someone in the eye.

I saw some photos from a silat seminar; looked like a good time. Just the techniques you are describing are part of the forms I learned in SD. Even in our brown level bird forms if I recall correctly.

[Shaolin Wookie]

I was a bit hesitant on my 2nd degree test, and it was 2-on-1 sparring. Wound up getting injured. GM The' was very kind, he checked up on me, and seemed quite concerned. He's a good man in many respects. I just don't trust what he says concerning the system.

JP--as for the prideful part. I would say that I am a prideful man in the sense that I try to take pride in what I do. I am also quite humble about my skills b/c I know there is much that I do not know--but I'll call BS when I see BS, and I'll challenge what I see as questionable based on what I know is solid. You cannot learn if you do not question things ruthlessly. If you do not question things, then you have no reason to take pride in what you do. Sometimes other people see this as arrogance, especially where the "don't question the teacher" mentality of TMA prevails.

[Shaolin Wookie]

I saw some photos from a silat seminar; looked like a good time. Just the techniques you are describing are part of the forms I learned in SD. Even in our brown level bird forms if I recall correctly.

I can see what you're saying, but the timing would be off. THe elbow would folllow the cap, not vice versa. 2 different techniques---but if you reverse engineer forms, as I often do, I could see what you're saying.

[Judge Pen]

I can see what you're saying, but the timing would be off. THe elbow would folllow the cap, not vice versa. 2 different techniques---but if you reverse engineer forms, as I often do, I could see what you're saying.

Because no two opponents are the same, I see limitless variations of applicaitons depending on you, your opponent and the extraneous conditions. Master Garry broke down applicaitons for short form (as did Master Nance). I forget how many pages were just for short form #1. Did you take Master Nance's KAT seminar? Really good stuff in there.

[Shaolin Wookie]

If that was his sparring skills seminar, yes. He is very skilled with those techniques. He really taught me to consider how integrated striking and china are.

[brucereiter]

jp is talking about kata application theory. it is worth checking out.

[hskwarrior]

jp is talking about kata application theory. it is worth checking out.

PET PEEVE HERE. IF YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO CLAIM YOU ARE KUNG FU....SHAOLIN.....YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO STOP USING JAPANESE TERMS FOR CHINESE MARTIAL ARTS.

KUNG FU DOES NOT CALL OUR FORMS "kata" THEY ARE REFERRED TO AS SETS OR FORMS.

[Judge Pen]

PET PEEVE HERE. IF YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO CLAIM YOU ARE KUNG FU....SHAOLIN.....YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO STOP USING JAPANESE TERMS FOR CHINESE MARTIAL ARTS.

KUNG FU DOES NOT CALL OUR FORMS "kata" THEY ARE REFERRED TO AS SETS OR FORMS.

I share that peeve, but I'm not sure what is the proper term for forms in "kung tao." As part of my 2nd teacher's change in trappings he moved away from the gi and calling forms "katas". But that aside, the applications in Master Nance's KAT seminar are excellent (no matter what he calls them).

[Shaolin Wookie]

I don't think some of KAT is particularly useful. Master Nance's stuff was more streamlined for combat. Some of the original KAT is brilliant, however. Much is rooted in chinna/techniques. Master Nance synthesized them well.

[Judge Pen]

I don't think some of KAT is particularly useful. Master Nance's stuff was more streamlined for combat. Some of the original KAT is brilliant, however. Much is rooted in chinna/techniques. Master Nance synthesized them well.

What, specifically, did you not think was useful?

[Shaolin Wookie]

I'm thinking particularly of berryman's guides. Too many assumptions of "grips" involved (and an irrational commitment to holding grips while the KAT user does what he wants). I'd have to go back and reassess to get more specific

Now, if someone gives me a grip, I always hold it tight to my chest or side. But you have to act quick, and I recall that some of KAT took way too much time to be effective in live sparring

[Judge Pen]

I'm thinking particularly of berryman's guides. Too many assumptions of "grips" involved (and an irrational commitment to holding grips while the KAT user does what he wants). I'd have to go back and reassess to get more specific

Now, if someone gives me a grip, I always hold it tight to my chest or side. But you have to act quick, and I recall that some of KAT took way too much time to be effective in live sparring

I think as long as you react with a quick and distracting strike, then the applications from a grip or grab become more realistic.

And let's not kid ourselves: a self-defense scenario is always different than live sparring. Unless your this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6Vy6-vvoBY

[bodhi warrior]

I share that peeve, but I'm not sure what is the proper term for forms in "kung tao." As part of my 2nd teacher's change in trappings he moved away from the gi and calling forms "katas". But that aside, the applications in Master Nance's KAT seminar are excellent (no matter what he calls them).

Are the DVDs worth the purchase?