Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Syn7]

Purposefuly antagonism = non-sucking people skills?

Syn7, you seem like a smart guy and a lot of what you say makes sense, but intentional, premeditated departures from common courtesy don't make them any less departures. In the stictly legal sense, a smart intentional ******* is more culpable than a dumb *******.

Just sayin'

Uhuh..... and?

I never said I couldn't be an asshole. Im just not an asshole to everyone.

I would gladly take anyone on in any of these topics. KC just keeps coming back for more, thats his choice.


I think KC needs to hear a few things about how well his argument is going for him. Maybe he needs to hear it from a SD brother. Anyone here think he made as good of a case as he seems to think he has? By all means, answer. I will take silence as an admission of the obvious and yall just dont wanna tell your friend the truth.

Common courtesy and PC has weakened us as a species. Get over it. Get tough or just turtle. Up to you.

[Syn7]

Not my version. Before I teach the handful of techniques against it, I teach the most effective. I mime handing the person my wallet and running away. Absolute nasty stuff that even the most solid lineage can't protect you 100% from. If they need more convincing I have told some students to google knife fight photos.

Word. I dont care how good you are, if your opponent is in your league, the likelyhood of both bleeding is very high.

Its even worse with empty hand. I brought fists to a knife fight when I was a kid and I have a six inch scar on my abs to show for it.

[tattooedmonk]

Just to let some of you know , I bought the books Bruce was referring to.... They are the same exact forms... If you are interested in digital copies of specific forms. pm me and I will see what we can do.

[kwaichang]

You havent accomplished any thing, This is the Kung fu Forum , Shaolin Do ? you have proven nothing you dont even talk on the subjest , you discuss some Philosophical BS that has no right or wrong answer , Philosophy is just that , as far as Psychology goes it is apparent you have an inferiority complex coupled with Bi Polar disorder with Border Line Narcissistic behavior, trends. In other words so you can under stand it you are a little boy trying to prove something to your self by trying to have support from others that you dont know so you may over come your unconscious inadequacies as a human being. KC

[Syn7]

Maybe I'm just a sociopath!!!



I'm not out to prove anything. None of this actually matters. But your counter arguments suck. And if any of your SD bros. either respect you enough or have the cajones to be honest with you, they will tell you that.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Not my version. Before I teach the handful of techniques against it, I teach the most effective. I mime handing the person my wallet and running away. Absolute nasty stuff that even the most solid lineage can't protect you 100% from. If they need more convincing I have told some students to google knife fight photos.

I've heard that one from every teacher I've seen in every art, and I'll call it BS every time. I heard it in SD, in BJJ, in MMA, in Wing Chun, and elsewhere. Even a well-respected silat guru said the same thing, but with a caveat (see below). I'll call BS on that (hand over your wallet) ASAP for one reason when it is used as a cover for very weak knife defenses. Everyone agrees that avoiding knife fights is a good idea. The problem is that sometimes you can't avoid the knife fight, and you had better have valid techniques for defense---not weak defenses masked by "don't get in knife fights" adages. Besides, these warnings are always delivered prior to knife defenses. So the defenses should be as informed as possible, right?

So, Meecer, after you deliver your "don't get in knife fights" warnings, do you then mime walking down the street with your wife after a nice dinner at a restaurant late at night, when someone jumps into the street and pulls a knife on you? He doesn't want your wallet. He wants something else that you're not willing to give (your wife, for instance), or a maybe just to kill you. Maybe he's a crazy homeless schizo who thinks that you're following him so that you can posion his food, and so watns to kill you. Maybe he wants you both to get into your car and drive him to your house while he holds the knife to your wife's throat. You've got kids sleeping at home. He wants you to bring him to them. You've got a second or two to send your wife screaming for help as you run interference so that he doesn't run for her. How do you defend against his attacks?

Wouldn't it be helpful to know knife defenses that, if you get cut, minimize the damage and might allow you to save your wife (giving her time to run for help)? And wouldn't it be better to learn principles of defense that don't assume your opponent is going to committ 100% to silly attacks in wide, sweeping arcs? I tried our SD knife defenses on a silat guru during a seminar (not showing off, it was just my only knowledge base for knife defense at the time) and landed the technique perfectly. I think he saw me performing this technique periodically during his class, and so stepped in to see what I would do if he stabbed in certain ways. Eventually, I whipped out this SD technique agaisnt his underhand stab, and I stopped his arm with both of my hands in X-block fashion and proceeded to step through to apply an arm lock. I was pretty fast, and he didn't pull the knife back and cut my wrists (which the X-block gives him access to if he pulls back). Or, if he grabs one of your X-block arms with his off hand, then he can cut it easily with the bladed one (right across the wrist). I'm now convinced he was being very kind by not killing me with my own block. Most schools I've been to teach something similar--jujitsu has a thousand of these applications for throws, starting from the same point. The guru then quickly reached his knife in the "blocked" arm with his unoccupied hand, passed the blade to the free hand ( I suspect he knew exactly what I wanted to do before I did it---the motion was so obvious by nature) and stabbed me right in the solar plexus and moved towards the throat in a quarter of a second. He didn't have to be faster than me. He just had to be smarter. He then asked me why I'd commit all my energy and both of my hands to an arm when he can always reach his knife or draw another one. I had no answer for that. He had a couple of knives in his waistband. It was a stupid reaction, to be sure.

I then took a 3-4 hour class focused solely on one concept (how to track the blade). I learned pretty quick that if someone stabs at you (who knows how to use a knife), it's very important which hand you use to ward off the attack. I didn't learn any disarms. I learned only which hand to ward the blade off with, and then (as an attacker) how to cut someone who does something foolish. I learned much that day---and I barely learned anything formal. Doesn't make anyone invincible, but it does bring reality to the issue. If everyone is going to get cut in a knife fight, it makes sense to limit the exposure of vital cut points to your attacker. Again---most MA's offer up vital cut points amid their "defenses," which turn out to be shoddy defenses.

Just a thought, Meecer. Always best to have a knife yourself, for sure. But then you always have to know how to use it--to be better prepared as a cutter of others. On this point, most martial arts are teaching techniques that I now know are very dangerous when passed off as self-defense. CMA (not just SD) is the biggest offender other than Aikido.

[Shaolin Wookie]

I'm not saying that basic knife attack defenses are pointless. Beginners have to start somewhere, right? And most can only grasp basic 2-step partner drills.

What I am saying is that those defenses ought to be labeled "weak" up front, and experienced students shouldn't continue teaching or practicing those weak defenses to the point of perfection without any modification for very long. As long as an art purports to teach knife work, it ought to be well-informed. If it isn't, then it's teaching BS.

Anyways, off to train my Golden Leopards. Difficult forms, killer cardio, 2nd degree black material down here. Later....

[Old Noob]

Common courtesy and PC has weakened us as a species. Get over it. Get tough or just turtle. Up to you.

I don't disagree with this at all and, as long as you don't demand courtesy, I can't find fault with your view that it has weakened us.

That being said, societal rules are what we agreed upon to keep us out of the state of nature and, if I am going to follow them, I expect others to do so as well. Personally, I'd be happy to go back to the state of nature; I'd do okay there. I've had to explain to exceedingly rude people a couple of times that these quaint little rules are the only things standing between me and all of their stuff, to include their physical well-being. I feel you on this.

But, if another person doesn't belong in an argument, you know you only fuel that participation by antagonizing that person. If you were truly that much more enlightened, you'd ignore it; not because its weak and PC but becuase you know its a waste of time. If wasting time is your goal, however, you're all good.

[Old Noob]

Two statistically true things about knife attacks and physical attacks generally:

1. In knife attacks, you will be cut; and
2. In cases of physical attack, survival rates are statistically higher if you resist whether the assailant is armed with a gun, a knife, or is unarmed.

Consequently, I'm not sure that I'd advise handing over the wallet. I don think need to understand the reality of the situation and be taught techniques that will allow themselves to extract themselves from the situation with the least damage possible. I personally prefer the methods articulated in Kill or Get Killed; they take a no BS view of what your chances and options are when confronted with a knife. And yes, it's a book.

[JSE]

FWIW i recently taught a knife defense class. I started the class by stating the following.

Rule 1 RUN!!! This is only if put in a life or death situation you cannot get away from.
Rule 2. You WILL get cut. These techniques "might" allow you to control where.

I gave no delusions of grandeur that anything taught would protect them from the blade. Just possibly increase the chance of survival.

As far as handing over the wallet, I have always been taught not to just hand it to the person. To throw it away from them. If they go for the wallet, run. If they do not, they probably were not solely interested in it anyway, time for plan B. Thoughts?

[themeecer]

I am sure classes/seminars with someone who specializes in knife fights would be useful. (Even though we are speaking about a very rare occurrence) I have not had that opportunity. I do not want to create some false bravado in my students that can get them seriously hurt or killed. Obviously a possession such as a wallet, phone, or vehicle isn't worth it .. a loved one is.

As for having my own weapons around, except at work I am normally always very close to a weapon. In my home it is mostly because I have had copperhead snakes inside and less about intruders.

JSE, I like the idea of tossing the wallet to the side or maybe even at them as you make your get away.

[Jimbo]

FWIW,
For such a possible scenario, it might be wise to carry two wallets; one for anything with your identification, and the other with your cash. Then if you must toss that wallet, at least you aren't giving him access to where you live, your accounts and other personal info.

[MasterKiller]

Frank doing CLF:

[Lucas]

omg so mean but that gif is freaking funny

[themeecer]

Frank doing CLF:

Maybe he was fighting off a bee.