Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Kellen Bassette]

The Southern Shaolin temple was burned down once during the regime of Kangxi Emperor in the Qing Dynasty. The temple was a base for the movement of Ming restoration against the Manchu rulers at that time. Now the Southern Shaolin Temple you see was rebuit later.

I wouldnt believe a Tong Member they atre Chinese Mafia. KC

I'm not jumping on any style bashing bandwagons, I fully believe in "It's the fighter not the system" and anyone with a mastery of fundamentals can be dangerous no matter what they train...

I don't think trying to discredit CLF is a good avenue KC...CLF is nearly 200 years old and based on older arts. They have great form work and a good reputation for producing fighters. It's a classical system, you can't argue against that.

As to ancient origin legends, you're going to find them in any traditional Asian style, Chinese or not...it's some sort of an Asian culture thing...Japanese, Okinawan, Korean, Thai, Indonesian...you;ll find tall tales in all of them...I think even a lot of modern Shaolin monks embellish stories from their past, quite a bit...I mean look at Bawang's stories about Wombat Combat...he couldn't have raped half the people he claims to, the math don't add up.

[hskwarrior]

Much of the clf history kwaichang posted came from me n what i've said on this forum in the past.

Originally Posted by kwaichang View Post

The Southern Shaolin temple was burned down once during the regime of Kangxi Emperor in the Qing Dynasty. The temple was a base for the movement of Ming restoration against the Manchu rulers at that time. Now the Southern Shaolin Temple you see was rebuit later.

I wouldnt believe a Tong Member they atre Chinese Mafia. KC

YOU'RE FROM SHAOLIN DO.......DON'T GO WITH WHAT "YOU" KNOW. UNH UNH

WHAT U CALL "CHINESE MAFIA" WAS SOMETHING THAT WENT HAND IN HAND WITH SOUTHERN GUNG FU. U CANNOT SEPERATE THE TWO EVEN IF U TRIED.

As to ancient origin legends, you're going to find them in any traditional Asian style, Chinese or not...it's some sort of an Asian culture thing...Japanese, Okinawan, Korean, Thai, Indonesian...you;ll find tall tales in all of them...I think even a lot of modern Shaolin monks embellish stories from their past, quite a bit...I mean look at Bawang's stories about Wombat Combat...he couldn't have raped half the people he claims to, the math don't add up.

SECRECY WAS PARAMOUNT DURING THE QING DYNASTY. IT WAS LITEREALLY A MATTER OF KEEPING YOUR HEAD.

[kwaichang]

I am not cutting any style I found the history interesting and posted it so others could read it. I also posted it as it confirms the existence of the Southern Shaolin Tsu. I am not trying to discredit anything but the statement that the dates do not correspond to what HSK said That is all. I do not believe what the Triad or Mafia say. They would say what benefits them . and because I was in SD does not mean I dont know some things. KC

[Kellen Bassette]

I am not cutting any style I found the history interesting and posted it so others could read it. I also posted it as it confirms the existence of the Southern Shaolin Tsu. I am not trying to discredit anything but the statement that the dates do not correspond to what HSK said That is all. I do not believe what the Triad or Mafia say. They would say what benefits them . and because I was in SD does not mean I dont know some things. KC

My apologies then, I may may have misinterpreted your motives...I do that sometimes.

[Syn7]

Yeeeehaaaawww struck a nerve !!! Woooohoooo you are legend in your own mind. You , your lineage and anything and everything you do is a joke . If you were so great you wouldn't be here putting others down. I can bet every SD person here, former or current could easily roll your jelly @$$, you fat fukc! This is about as much attention I can give you... Maybe come so cal @$$wipe and I will show you what being a real martial artist is about , because you obviously need lessons have a great day!

Well, you guys are pretty close together. You should fight and stream it to kfm so we can gamble!

I dunno about TTM and have no idea who he is or how good he is. But I know I would not wanna get thumped by an HSK sow choy.


That being said, you both need to just R-E-L-A-X. Being complete *******s to eachother is all good, but don't get mad about it. Composure, gentlemen!

Composure has helped me win many fights. Especially when I am the first to engage. No telegraph, just strike like a snake and watch em crumble...

[hskwarrior]

i am not trying to discredit anything but the statement that the dates do not correspond to what hsk said that is all.

what dates are you comparing my dates to? My dates come from leading researchers on the subject. Even chan heung's records state the shaolin temple burned down in or around 1760.

[hskwarrior]

i dunno about ttm and have no idea who he is or how good he is. But i know i would not wanna get thumped by an hsk sow choy.

if you're referring to seeing that in one of the video's bro, i swear on my mother all i showed was 40% of what i can do. I purposely "not" demonstrate my best for a few reasons. One of them is so people will make the mistake of underestimating me. These hands not only kptfo they can also wake some people up to the truth. :d

[kwaichang]

Note the following article.
a lost Shaolin Temple in Jimei, Fujian, China. The term “lost” with respect to a society or former settlement generally conjures images of archaeological digs, Atlantis, Troy, Hamunaptra, El Dorado, etc. In this case, however, much of the remains were hiding pretty much in plain site, some of them quite well preserved. What has been lost, in this case, is the knowledge and concern of this grand site’s origins and significance, rather than all of the buildings themselves.





Rather than a buried ruin, this site more fits the bill of a reinhabited ghost town. This is evident from the fact that many of these buildings are now occupied, but with little knowledge or appreciation of their importance and historical/cultural value.





The architecture was classic Minnan. There are countless such settlements throughout Southern Fujian. So, were they residences or temples? The answer is, both. Minnan society is deeply rooted in religion, and residences often double as temples, where Buddhist rituals mingled with the Confucian practice of ancestor worship liberally abound. Moreover, some of the buildings served as both domiciles where worship was carried out, while others were dedicated exclusively to community worship.





Jimei, known now for its egregious contributions to Chinese education, and large student population, was indeed previously an edifice of an entirely different sort – a great fortress that housed one of the largest Shaolin monasteries of its day in fact.





Though one wonders how something this seemingly obvious could go unnoticed for long, it is altogether reasonable that history in this case can go forgotten. Firstly, the Shaolin were a secret order, so did not keep records or broadcast their existence to the public. This became even truer when the Manchu of their day outlawed martial arts.



Secondly, it is said that the winners of the wars are the ones who write the history books. Certainly knowledge of the Shaolin, if they ever were discovered, is not something that the Manchu or Qing dynasty would want to disclose. It was a can of worms much better swept under the rug.



Finally, after the fall of the Ming dynasty, as well as after the burning of Shaolin temples on many occasions, many of the Shaolin monks fled China, seeking refuge and asylum in Taiwan, Japan, Indonesia, Malaysia, and elsewhere throughout the far reaches of Asia. This event afforded tremendous mutual influence between the Chinese and Japanese martial arts, as well as Asian marital arts as a whole.





In addition to all this, the Qing dynasty depopulated the entire coastal region in the area, as documented in Dr. Bill Brown’s Fujian Adventure. According to Dr. Brown 50,000 were also executed in Tong An. At the time of this event, what we now refer to as Jimei fell under the jurisdiction of Tong An (The appellation of Jimei never came into being until the 1900’s with regards to this particular peninsular settlement).

[kwaichang]

That these temples were Shaolin is established by the nature of the ornamentation in many of the temple structures. In contrast to the pacifistic symbolism in conventional Buddhist temple decorations, the Shaolin temples include depictions of a more bellicose nature. Examples of this at the temple in Jimei include warriors in Kung Fu poses, armed mounts wielding weapons, and birds (sometimes with mounted warriors) whose position obviously indicate dive-bombing their prey. These birds strongly link to the Shaolin White Crane (Yong Chu, predecessor to Wing Chun) philosophy of emulating this formidable fowl’s aggressive nature in combat. It also includes the presence of weapons within the Temple structures. It seems as if the architecture and artifacts are actually fashioned into a hidden instruction manual whereby the masters can teach the secret art.



There are also reliefs of actual cranes engaged in combat on some of the structures. This further corroborates the link between these temple structures and the Fujian White Crane Shaolin Arts. Which, in turn, confirms that this was indeed a safe haven for the Red Flower Society and Shaolin Ming rebels in the 17th century.

[hskwarrior]

note the following article.
A lost shaolin temple in jimei, fujian, china. The term “lost” with respect to a society or former settlement generally conjures images of archaeological digs, atlantis, troy, hamunaptra, el dorado, etc. In this case, however, much of the remains were hiding pretty much in plain site, some of them quite well preserved. What has been lost, in this case, is the knowledge and concern of this grand site’s origins and significance, rather than all of the buildings themselves.

you need to do a lot more research than that. My lineage was established in 1851 and some of our schools in china from back then were lost. It wasn't until the late 1990's that three of our schools were found by the government.

Firstly, the Shaolin were a secret order, so did not keep records or broadcast their existence to the public.

WHERE DI DU HEAR THAT? LOL

Secondly, it is said that the winners of the wars are the ones who write the history books. Certainly knowledge of the Shaolin, if they ever were discovered, is not something that the Manchu or Qing dynasty would want to disclose. It was a can of worms much better swept under the rug.

THEY'RE DEAD. U CAN'T SPEAK FOR THEM

Which, in turn, confirms that this was indeed a safe haven for the Red Flower Society and Shaolin Ming rebels in the 17th century.

U HAVE NO IDEA HOW DEEP IT GETS

[Syn7]

I'm not jumping on any style bashing bandwagons, I fully believe in "It's the fighter not the system" and anyone with a mastery of fundamentals can be dangerous no matter what they train...

I don't think trying to discredit CLF is a good avenue KC...CLF is nearly 200 years old and based on older arts. They have great form work and a good reputation for producing fighters. It's a classical system, you can't argue against that.

As to ancient origin legends, you're going to find them in any traditional Asian style, Chinese or not...it's some sort of an Asian culture thing...Japanese, Okinawan, Korean, Thai, Indonesian...you;ll find tall tales in all of them...I think even a lot of modern Shaolin monks embellish stories from their past, quite a bit...I mean look at Bawang's stories about Wombat Combat...he couldn't have raped half the people he claims to, the math don't add up.

Yeah, the origin stories of Bak Mei are ridiculous. Sensationalistic bull**** that MAY be rooted in SOME truth. MAYBE. That's why I only pay attention to CLC and everything that came after. Most of it is well documented with pictures and reliable testimony.

[Syn7]

I am not cutting any style I found the history interesting and posted it so others could read it. I also posted it as it confirms the existence of the Southern Shaolin Tsu. I am not trying to discredit anything but the statement that the dates do not correspond to what HSK said That is all. I do not believe what the Triad or Mafia say. They would say what benefits them . and because I was in SD does not mean I dont know some things. KC

I don't think KC knows what Triads are or what their roots are.

Another well thought out statement!

[Kellen Bassette]

Yeah, the origin stories of Bak Mei are ridiculous. Sensationalistic bull**** that MAY be rooted in SOME truth. MAYBE. That's why I only pay attention to CLC and everything that came after. Most of it is well documented with pictures and reliable testimony.

And there's nothing wrong with passing the legend on. It's part of the culture of the art. It probably has as much right to be preserved as some of the forms, so long as you present it to your students as a legend and not as historical fact. The 12 year old kid your teaching that thinks your invincible may not be able to tell the difference.

[Snipsky]

for sure,

you don't want to test hsk on his hung society or his choi lei fut knowledge. i don't always agree with his method of delivery, but he still does know his stuff.

[Syn7]

And there's nothing wrong with passing the legend on. It's part of the culture of the art. It probably has as much right to be preserved as some of the forms, so long as you present it to your students as a legend and not as historical fact. The 12 year old kid your teaching that thinks your invincible may not be able to tell the difference.

Word. Not unlike telling your kids "it's just a movie".

I look at them as tales of adventure and in some cases, lessons. Not very different than any other culture with fantastic tales of old. Like Olympus etc. Real place, but what happened there is just stories for the most part. Fun stories, but just stories. In reality it was more like a bunch of people pushing along and fending off slaughter once in a while.

Shaolin was real, some great things happened there, but there were no monks covered in chains to keep them from floating away. Half a dozen people do not fend off whole armies for a sustained period. But it's a nice thought.