Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Syn7]

Make it happen then ! What a ****ing joke..

Still duckin, huh.



So....

Evidence. HSCLF guys coming out the woodwork to testify that it's a HS form. Subjective, okay.

Evidence, DFW book. Show us another book that is not related to HSCLF that published the form on an earlier date.

Nice and simple. Not too confusing for those of limited cognitive abilities. Nice n slow.

YOUR TURN!!!

[One student]

Word on the video, but I doubt Sin The would take up his offer in person or on the phone. Besides, why argue with a proven liar? He has shown to be an unreliable source of information, regardless of what's true and what isn't. So what's the point? He is so committed to his bullshit now, it's a lost cause. Truth would hurt him more than continued lies at this point. And unless he's really stupid, he will be aware of that.

As Old Noob and Bruce and others have said, there are a large number of SD'ers, past and present, who value what they have learned and practice, but also have questions about what it is and where it came from. And as others have said, the internet will catch up to everyone sooner or later, so it will come to a head at some point. But making a phone call or the like would not only not get a documented or verifiable response (who would believe it if someone said, "Oh yeah, I called, so and so then told me such and such"?), but might also more likely be ignored, like any other unsolicited and uninvited caller.

But there is a Facebook page for the SDA. And Sin The's school site has a "contact us" which is bound to go to someone in authority. And they have a Twitter feed. Many individual schools also have their own sites and pages. May be kicking the hornet's nest, but if either spreading or finding out the truth is so important to outsiders, there is bound to be a way to do it. A current or former student, not really any reason to answer or respond, and that is very likely to burn a bridge, hurt feelings, and offend friends and past or present teachers, more than anything else. May be same for any one else. And of course the responses, if any (and there may be none, those in charge may feel no need to respond or not in their interests to do so) could be as easily posted and distributed as a deposition. EML did post something when the deposition was published.

Remember being in a meeting of black belts once, which SD did approximately annually back then. It was well known there were malcontents in the school and in the room. GMS invited any one who wasn't happy to stand up and say so, one did. He mouthed off something offensive about the system or something or other. GMS quietly told him he wasn't qualified to judge, as I recall. He started to approach GMS and 200 black belts stood up and demonstrated their displeasure, so to speak. The guy wisely left the building and wasn't seen in the school again.

And of course we've all seen the "hecklers" in audiences of shows and public events, and the way they are received when offensively disrupting the purpose of the event.

Just saying, might be a good way, and a bad way, if actual information is the goal. "I have a question: how is it SD claims such and such, but this book or site or whatever says this and that?" Might suggest an actual well-intentioned inquiry might be better received if not in all caps and full of vulgarity, but that's a different point, isn't it?

But if one wants to b*tch, don't b*tch out the students, or those who you might also call victims if what some say is true --- go to the source. No one here will ever have the answers, only speculation or at best reasoned hypotheses.

[tattooedmonk]

Still duckin, huh.



So....

Evidence. HSCLF guys coming out the woodwork to testify that it's a HS form. Subjective, okay.

Evidence, DFW book. Show us another book that is not related to HSCLF that published the form on an earlier date.

Nice and simple. Not too confusing for those of limited cognitive abilities. Nice n slow.

YOUR TURN!!!

you mean frank.
That isn't any proof at all. When I receive the book from China I will.

[hskwarrior]

you mean frank.
That isn't any proof at all. When I receive the book from China I will.

LMAO....LMAO.....LMAO......you ain't got sh1t. you ain't gonna do sh1t. and you ain't about sh1t. fake ass wannabe.

the idiot doesn't even know who is hung sing related on this forum and who isn't. how funny. many of the people who argued with him are family. LOL. he's a fukkin loser.

[brucereiter]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not defending HSK. I said it before, his way is not my way. Besides, he seems capable of defending himself and comfortable with his approach. So, you know, it is what it is. He will stop when he's ready just as I will stop bitching at TTM when I am ready. Not a moment sooner. Believe that.

Anyways, curious... You been to his forum? TTM's, that is. Has he posted his reference materials for his arguments? Even a list of these materials? Book titles, anything? He doesn't really seem up to it. But honestly, I'm curious. I don't want to assume he's full of shit. He could be lying or just not very smooth when ducking questions for any number of reasons.

i have been to his new forum. no talk about that subject that i have read. its mostly been me and a few other current and ex students talking about tai chi chuan. no drama...

Also I will be honest. When it comes to people like TTM, I think we, as a society, let people off too easilly. Somebody makes a retard argument then two weeks later after the buzz dies down they are taken seriously again. Don't get me wrong, second chances are great. 3rd, 4th, 5th even. Sometimes. But I mean, come on. These people make insane comments then slip back into the fold a few weeks later and it's like none of it ever happened. Am I the only one who finds this intensely dysfunctional, especially since it's on a communal level. We get comfortable with bullshit so easily. It's weird to me. Live and let live only goes so far. It doesn't mean unlimited free passes. It's not an emotional thing for me, it's an intellectual thing. It's just not right. Even online, the largest experiment in chaos in human history, we should hold people to some reasonable standard. I don't mind people who are aggressive or not nice. I don't really care how people approach their arguments. Etiquette and PC are secondary. I care about the substance. And far too often people of little substance get away with it way too long. Which comes full circle right back to SKT. Facades. Weak.


You seem pretty honest, what's your take?

sin kwang the is a mystery man, who knows what the truth is? i wish he would be clear and explicit in honestly answering questions about any of the material taught in his system even if the answer was an honest "i don't know".

i agree with the general ideas you present but if i were ttm and frank spoke that way to me i would ignore him and not give him anything negative or positive.
i cant speak for ttm other than i dont agree with the bickering back and forth but ... ...
(i wont repeat that broken record yet at least)

[Empty_Cup]

...

But there is a Facebook page for the SDA. And Sin The's school site has a "contact us" which is bound to go to someone in authority. And they have a Twitter feed. Many individual schools also have their own sites and pages. May be kicking the hornet's nest, but if either spreading or finding out the truth is so important to outsiders, there is bound to be a way to do it. A current or former student, not really any reason to answer or respond, and that is very likely to burn a bridge, hurt feelings, and offend friends and past or present teachers, more than anything else. May be same for any one else. And of course the responses, if any (and there may be none, those in charge may feel no need to respond or not in their interests to do so) could be as easily posted and distributed as a deposition. EML did post something when the deposition was published.

...

...

But if one wants to b*tch, don't b*tch out the students, or those who you might also call victims if what some say is true --- go to the source. No one here will ever have the answers, only speculation or at best reasoned hypotheses.

Good post OS. I have to think this has been done before at some point. Do you know if there was ever an official response other than the letter you referenced?

[Syn7]

i have been to his new forum. no talk about that subject that i have read. its mostly been me and a few other current and ex students talking about tai chi chuan. no drama...




sin kwang the is a mystery man, who knows what the truth is? i wish he would be clear and explicit in honestly answering questions about any of the material taught in his system even if the answer was an honest "i don't know".

i agree with the general ideas you present but if i were ttm and frank spoke that way to me i would ignore him and not give him anything negative or positive.
i cant speak for ttm other than i dont agree with the bickering back and forth but ... ...
(i wont repeat that broken record yet at least)

Word....!!!

[Syn7]

you mean frank.
That isn't any proof at all. When I receive the book from China I will.

Name it. Why do you need it in your hands to name the title, author and house???

[OldandUsed]

Since SKT resides right there in CA, and HSK is right there in CA, why don't they get together and HSK get in SKT's face about the form and they hash it out between them? Film it, post it and be done with it?

[OldandUsed]

@OneStudent. Yup, I can remember being at a BB meeting at the Sportscenter when one guy stood up and popped off. That was amusing, when he realized he was about to get his butt kicked. Turned a little lighter, didn't he?

[Kellen Bassette]

When I receive the book from China I will.

Good luck with that. I ordered a book once from an American company, but they had to back order the book from China. After 6 months I told them to cancel my order. They apologized and told me it takes them an inordinate amount of time for them to receive books from China. I pop by their site now and then..that book is still listed on backorder....it's been a couple years.

Hope your guys are more on the ball than those guys were.

[brucereiter]

@OneStudent. Yup, I can remember being at a BB meeting at the Sportscenter when one guy stood up and popped off. That was amusing, when he realized he was about to get his butt kicked. Turned a little lighter, didn't he?

What was the nature of his comments/questions? Are you saying that sd black belts were actually going to "kick his butt" for asking or saying something offensive?
What kind of comment or question would solicit this type of response?
Why would someone not be able to ask a question without the fear of violence?

[Kellen Bassette]

Since SKT resides right there in CA, and HSK is right there in CA, why don't they get together and HSK get in SKT's face about the form and they hash it out between them? Film it, post it and be done with it?

Could you imagine?? I wonder if HSK would start by calmly asking questions, then go off...or just go off. It would be good family fun, I think.

[sean_stonehart]

What was the nature of his comments/questions? Are you saying that sd black belts were actually going to "kick his butt" for asking or saying something offensive?
What kind of comment or question would solicit this type of response?
Why would someone not be able to ask a question without the fear of violence?

Bruce... not the first time I've heard that, or for that fact experienced it myself in SD.

[OldandUsed]

As I recall, and I am an old guy with sometimes fuzzy memory, the BB stood up and smack talked SKT. Made derogatory statements about the material, the teaching and that none of the BB in the club could fight. He was on the verge of telling SKT that he thought he was a fake (as I guess is his right, but if he felt that way, why not just leave?) and I stood up and told him he could not talk to my master that way. (Yes, at that time I was a koolaid drinker. ) Anyway, SKT smiled at him and said he thought it would be best for him if he left. Bill Leonard and I think Eric Smith escorted him out of the room. Anyone else in here remember it differently?