Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Old Noob]

OK so I don't really wanna play the pissing game today. I just have a couple questions.
I didn't know you were a police. Can I ask you a question I ask whenever I get the chance. Yes? Why thank you.

And please, honest questions that simply require honest answers. You can PM the answers if you would rather do it that way.

So, it's two questions really. 1, how do you reconcile with having to give out fines and/or press charges for things you yourself have done?

2, Have you ever seen another officer cross the line and you did NOT do anything about it? This is my main question, I find I only get an honest answer about 25% of the time. Usually I just get a straight denial that it even happens, but as it's in person and I study behaviour, it's really easy to see when they are lying. It won't be so easy online, but I would appreciate some honesty none the less.

Thanx for your time.

I'm actually not a police but a prosecutor. I was an Army JAG for a long time and now do international violent crime prosectutions for DOJ. Luckily, I haven't spent a lot of time doing minor infractions and have never prosecuted a criminal defendant for something that I've done myself. My focus has been on violent crime and the vast majority of my prosecutions have been for homicides or sex crimes. I've prosecuted some drug cases but not many and, since I don't do drugs, I haven't had to feel any hypocracy about prosecuting them; though I do have mixed feelings about legalization of some drugs.

As for officers - and soldiers - who've gone too far, I've prosecuted them too.

Don't know if this answers your question or not.

[Syn7]

Yup, answers mt question. Thanx for taking the time.

[Old Noob]

Yup, answers mt question. Thanx for taking the time.

No worries. I'm so thick that I didn't even get the police references that Frank was making. I was so busy trolling him that I let it roll right past. His dox job of me must have been only moderately successful.

[Syn7]

No worries. I'm so thick that I didn't even get the police references that Frank was making. I was so busy trolling him that I let it roll right past. His dox job of me must have been only moderately successful.

Yeah. I have mixed feelings about law enforcement and authority in general. First, lemme explain how I think. I don't follow rules because they are rules, I follow them when I believe in them. There are laws I do break and don't really care about the fact that they are illegal beyond getting caught. As you probably have guessed by now, one of those laws is soft drugs. Ganja specifically. No law is gonna turn me off. If I stop it will be because I want to. And as I age, I find I smoke less even tho I have more money which means more access.

Anyways, out of the people I grew up with, 7 are police officers and there are a handful of corrections and a couple that went to work for the crown as an attorney. Out of the seven police, 2 are women. One is cool, the other is a bitter lil twat and always has been. Of the four males, one is cool. Really nice guy. The rest are those douchebag types that made themselves feel better by picking on smaller people who never fought back. I find that the job attracts these types like flies on shit. When I ask those two questions to them, they take major offense, throw up a wall and then get aggressive for questioning their authority (said in Cartman voice authoritie!). So whenever I get to talk to a reasonable police I ask these question that I find quite valid. Who doesn't speed sometimes? Or smoke a joint, or whatever. So it amazes me that people can have that duality and not see the obvious problem. This leads to above the law thinking. As a prosecutor I know you know what I mean. But the bigger issue is the good cops who don't tear down the bad ones. It's a brotherhood and fitting in seems to be very important to them. I see cops roll their eyes when an overaggressive partner is doing wrong, but they never speak up and certainly don't go against them in any sort of inquiry unless what they did was REALLY bad. Based on the good/apathetic/bad ratio I have come up with from my own experiences and talking to others, I find it very unlikely that any cop who isn't green hasn't seen an officer get outta line and not do anything about it.


So, I'm not just hating, I have my reasons and as a youth I had more than enough experience with the system to know what it's all about and who's who and what happens.

In my city a serial killer murdered 50 women and because of police arrogance and an inability to accept outside help along with a significant male female relations problem in the police cultrure here led to many women being murdered when they clearly had the evidence and info to stop it years sooner. When the inquiry came they automatically closed rank and denied any wrongdoing whatsoever and held tight. Then the real damaging evidence came out that made them all look bad and they turned on eachother like wolves. It was really sad to watch the selfishness when the topic was fifty murdered marginalized, mostly non white, women. Not to mention the fact that like three in custody mysterious deaths and two very public overreacting police causing death happened around the same time. One was a taser thing, the other was an unarmed suspect on the ground being shot in the back of the head. Vancouver isn't unique and as I age and pay more attention with more critical eyes, less emotional, I'm really starting to see just how broken and straight up fucked up the police culture really is. Between the attitude and the job, half of these guys can't even keep their family together let alone manage citizens without being too hard handed. Like striking citizens for filming arrests. They take it personally and lash out. It's sad.

Now this isn't to say there isn't a minority of good cops, I just wish they would man up and fight the good fight for a change. How does your perspective as a prosecutor jive with my perspective as a civilian? I see a lot more aggression than is warranted when protect and serve is your motto. I see a lot of protecting and serving egos. How bout prosecutors? It's a position of power. You see many getting outta line, juking stats etc? Bill Peterson is the perfect example of a man who should not be allowed to work as a prosecutor.

[OldandUsed]

@Syn7:

I am a retired police officer. I have seen my fair share of good and bad officers. Yes, I was one of those that made a face when a fellow officer did something that was out of line. Depending on the situation, it is not advisable to interfere at the time of the incident when suspects are present. It is a safety factor. If it was a minor transgression, I addressed it with the officer on the side after everything was secure. If it was a major issue, I reported it to the shift supervisor and let the system do its job. Occaisionally, it required me putting myself between the suspect and the other officer and taking over the action officer role instead of cover officer.

If you remember that an officer is always outnumbered on the street and the officer that comes to back him up may be one of the officers that has issues, you can see why officers close ranks and cover each other to outsiders. What the public does not always see is the disciplinary actions taken within the agency against officers that are violators.

My primary job was serving warrants and bringing in violent offenders. Of course, when I was on the street I tried to get to one call or service site as quickly as possible because there was always a backlog and I was expected to get several taken care of each shift. I rarely followed the speed limit and did not always engage my emergency equipment. I am sure it appeared I was just joy-riding. When I was off-duty, a lot of times I drove faster than the posted speed limit. Guess what? The only traffic citations I issued for speeding were for those knuckleheads that were weaving in and out of traffic without signals and following too close. In short, reckless driving and wanton endangerment.

If you: were not endangering or hurting anyone; did not destroy any property; and acted like you had some sense when I pulled you over; I told you why I pulled you over and asked you to clean up your act and let you go with a warning. I did not do any paperwork for simple possession, either. I would take you to the storm drain and make you dispose of the weed and then turn you loose. Same with alcohol, unless you failed the field sobriety test. I do not and have never smoked. So, I did not smoke pot, either. Not all officers are jerks, buddy.

[Old Noob]

How does your perspective as a prosecutor jive with my perspective as a civilian? I see a lot more aggression than is warranted when protect and serve is your motto. I see a lot of protecting and serving egos. How bout prosecutors? It's a position of power. You see many getting outta line, juking stats etc?

Perspective is an interesting thing. Because I cut my teeth as a prosecutor in the military, I never did a stint in a local prosecutors office (except for a brief internship in law school). Consequently, I didn't ever see how high-volume/low-end misdemeanor level crimes were handled systemically. I think that's relevant to the conversation because that's where I believe that both the abuse and the stat-jiggering would be most prevalent. Higher volume and lower importance = less oversight on the operaters and line prosecutors = more chances for those with bad intentions to abuse their positions.

I've been mostly lucky. I went to law school because I wanted to prosecute violent crime; people who put their hands on others for no reason - when we were young both my brother and I were, on separate occasions, jumped by a large number of guys and took some significant damage. I've mostly gotten to do those types of cases, though violent crimes against women became the vast majority of my practice. Prosecuting violent offenders decomplicates the situation. I rarely find myself feeling sympathy towards those defendants.

On the issue of law enforcement and prosecutorial abuse, I've also been lucky. Because I haven't been inovolved in high volume policing and prosecution, I haven't been exposed to much in the way of police misconduct. I have seen my share of soldier misconduct pertaining to detainees and that is an incredibly complex situation that involves elements that are similar to LE misconduct and elements that are completely removed; so much so that they aren't really comparable to each other. Nonetheless, when I believed that soldiers made calls that crossed the line regarding treatment of detainees, I've prosecuted them and I was never hindered in that activity by any bueraucratic barriers to doing that. Those have been the jury cases that I've lost though; war is such a foggy thing that it gets really hard to get a guy guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in those circumstances.

Since I've left the Army, I've seen a whole different problem. Becuase I do international violent crime now and because of our political and budget problems, I have problems getting the the resources necessary to pursue our cases the way that they could be pursued in a perfect world. Anyway, I'm rambling. The bottom line is that I'm a systems guy; I want to believe in the system. In order to do that, I have to be willing to go after guys that behave in ways that undermine the dignity of that system. I'm not for criminaly prosecuting developmental mistakes but I'd totally go after dirty cops or prosecutors. You have to to protect the system.

And by system, I mean the justice system and not the laws themselves. I, like you, don't have uniform regard for all laws.

[OldandUsed]

@OldNoob.....Bravo!

[Syn7]

Not all officers are jerks.

Not all, but far too many. And it seems wimpy go with the flow and jerk outnumbers good. BTW, I hate it when people call me buddy. Go listen to a lil De La Soul and you may change your mind as to what the word actually means to some people.

I totally understand the need to provide a unified front when out on the streets. Granted I find that abused quite often, but I get the need to not undermine an officer in public from a personal safety angle. But you have to understand that the message this sends is quite damaging and it's a failure if anyone steps out of line in the first place. As a law enforcement officier you need to set the standard for proper behaviour and respect for the rights of others. Now I also know for a fact that most LEGIT complaints against police go nowhere. So I find it hard to believe there is THAT much reprimanding behind closed doors. Again, I know police officers who do wrong. The last one I remember clearly beat the living **** out of a secured prisoner. HE got a transfer. And I live in a very liberal city, I don't even want to think what it's like in some backwater.

I don't need to post the 40 million police abuse youtube vids because I know you guys know. If you would stand up for a citizen when, say, one of your teammates aggressively goes after somebody filming an arrest and unlawfully attempts to erase or take that footage. If you took a stand right there and said NO, you would do more for police PR than all the millions of dollars that is spent on "image".

Tolerating poor behaviour in those whose job it is to set an example just because you want your own ass covered is a serious problem. I get it, but something needs to give here. It's just getting worse. See that's where perspective comes in. And I'm sorry, but the average citizen you serve has a perspective that is more important than yours. If that scares people, don't be a cop. It's not a military organization. In fact I think all cops should have atleast two years of psych, but that's just me. But try to understand MY perspective. I don't respect the brotherhood unconditionally and when I see some of these guys being complete jerks day after day and never getting touched for it, it bothers me. Not to mention all the situations that are created because of this high handedness. I can't even tell you how many times I've seen a guy got throttled by cops when had they not been such *******s, he wouldn't have felt the need to lash out in the first place. This is especially true with escalation in a group mentality, on both sides. And yes, I understand it's complicated. But when you throw on riot gear and surround peaceful protesters, it's your aggressive actions that ultimately encourages the poor behaviour in so so many scenarios. Not all, but often enough to be a real problem.

I've actually been caught in a riot before and I can appreciate how the cops felt. Some were good, some were bad. But the overall strategy was destructive and plain wrong. I remember being forced into an alley only to find a moving blockade at the other end with tear gas flying at us from both ends, nowhere to go yet the whole time they are saying disperse. At that point I just started helping some of the more defenseless people find a way out. 75% of the people in that alley just wanted to go home. It was families and stuff. So wrong. Was there an inquiry? There was a fake one used for more funding. Not one officer or incident commander lost their job over that. When dealing with citizens from a position of power like this, there is no room for mistake and there needs to be better screening and greater consequences for misconduct. I see the same guys doing the same things over and over even when I know they are being called out by civilians. Nothing happens.


For the record, I don't hate policing and I do understand and respect the idea. My problem lays in how the job is changing and what it's becoming. Not that there haven't always been problems, but now it's becoming more of an US vs Them systemic thing than a "oh we have the odd d-bag here" kinda thing. Police aren't soldiers, and they live with and love civilians themselves. I find the duality fascinating. That ability to separate how you feel with how you act in regards to what's fair and what isn't.
Also, if you are not a traffic cop, then I believe you when you say you don't write many tickets. But when writing tickets and searching cars is your day, that doesn't tend to be the case.


Look, I realize their are some good guys there, but that isn't a reason to NOT speak out against the injustice perpetrated by police. If you want to not be perceived negatively, then clean up your back yard.
I refuse to have my liberties compromised by anyone. PERIOD.


As for the speeding thing, the excuses don't fly if when I catch up I see you in line at the local coffee shop. When I see a cop speed I assume he has a purpose. It's when I all to often see that there is not a good reason that I take note and remember and associate the behaviour with words like UNACCEPTABLE.

rant over. Thanx for your time. And I do appreciate the honesty and the fact that you responded intelligently at all. I find all too often I get slogans are aggressive defensiveness. As if I am questioning their personal integrity. And that's not the case. I observe, form hypothesis and I go out and talk about it. IMO this is how peaceful change occurs. Thanx.


As far as prosecutors go, I agree with the comment on the lower level cases. I do have to point out all the recent releases from DNA evidence tho. How many death row inmates have been released now? I can totally see why they don't test samples for cases where the execution has already taken place. That could be disastrous for law and order. But I do believe that if they are willing to lie and/or cheat in order to look better at lower levels, they are likely to be ****s when they advance as well. Especially the ones with less oversight. It's not like they get a promotion then automatically admit to themselves that they are ****s and change their step. If anything they slow down because they know more people are watching.

[Old Noob]

As far as prosecutors go, I agree with the comment on the lower level cases. I do have to point out all the recent releases from DNA evidence tho. How many death row inmates have been released now? I can totally see why they don't test samples for cases where the execution has already taken place. That could be disastrous for law and order. But I do believe that if they are willing to lie and/or cheat in order to look better at lower levels, they are likely to be ****s when they advance as well. Especially the ones with less oversight. It's not like they get a promotion then automatically admit to themselves that they are ****s and change their step. If anything they slow down because they know more people are watching.

It's a fair point. I was reading an article today and it noted, anecdotally, that a large number of murder convictions that were later overturned on DNA grounds were convictions originally based on informant testimony. Informant testimony is inherently problematic because the informant gets rewarded for helping the government. If the cops don't or can't verify information provided by the informant independently, the informant then has license to lie and no disinsentive to do so. Luckily for everyone, the advances in forensic science have at least reduced the proportion of prosecutions that rely solely on informant testimony or even on eyewitness identification, which can also be problematic sometimes. Also, I agree that if **** rises, it doesn't cease to be ****. I just hope that most of the **** stays stationary.

[Snipsky]

Did tattooed punk really make himself into a huge liar man? i keep coming back to check and see if he was a man of his word. and nothin at all. what a waste of time

[Old Noob]

Did tattooed punk really make himself into a huge liar man? i keep coming back to check and see if he was a man of his word. and nothin at all. what a waste of time

He didn't waste your time coming back here; you did. Then you wasted more time typing up your snipsky comment. If you really didn't want to waste your time, I imagine that you wouldn't have come here looking for something you knew wouldn't be here and you certainly wouldn't have taken the time to comment. You're not wasting your time; you're trolling and you're enjoying it. So stop complaining about conditions of your own making.

[Snipsky]

He didn't waste your time coming back here; you did. Then you wasted more time typing up your snipsky comment. If you really didn't want to waste your time, I imagine that you wouldn't have come here looking for something you knew wouldn't be here and you certainly wouldn't have taken the time to comment. You're not wasting your time; you're trolling and you're enjoying it. So stop complaining about conditions of your own making.
Reply With Quote

i love the fact that Tattooed Spunk stuck his foot into mouth to tasted his own toe cheese.

[hskwarrior]

Did tattooed punk really make himself into a huge liar man? i keep coming back to check and see if he was a man of his word. and nothin at all. what a waste of time

Personally, i gave up on that fool. I was hoping he wasn't lying, because i would love to know more of the history of OUR form. But i knew that lying mudda chukka had nothing. I stand my ground cause i know what i'm talking about. and i knew his lying ass would fail at whatever he was doing. funny thing is, now whatever students he has now knows he's a fake fuk.

for me, this thread will stand in infamy for the rest of the world to see. In the end, the specific 5 animal form in question belongs to HUNG SING USA and Sin The, founder of Shaolin Do boosted our form from Doc Fai Wong's book. People will also know that certain so called teachers under the SD umbrella participated in the defense of Sin The's un-teacher like actions of lying to his family.

A word to the wise: Don't learn martial arts from a book. Don't try to learn gung fu from video's unless you already know the system. you cannot learn gung fu from the earth or from TV shows like "KUNG FU" or movies like KUNG FU PANDA. Kwai Chang Kane is just a TV character. When students from a specific style tells you you are practicing it all wrong, question your teachers about it. Especially when all you know is in question from ALL styles claimed.

On that note, I'm out. I have more important things to do than busta bash all day. let it be known, i NEVER show my skills on video because of exact things perpetrated by SD. so I'll be sucka duckin for the time being.

[Syn7]

Yeah, I'm sure TM will keep talking, but I doubt he'll be doing any showing. It's too bad. I was hoping for some convoluted mystery. I'd say it's disappointing, but the truth of it is that, benefit of doubt or not, nobody really expected him to come through. That book will be on back order forever.

[Orion Paximus]

A word to the wise: Don't learn martial arts from a book. Don't try to learn gung fu from video's unless you already know the system. you cannot learn gung fu from the earth or from TV shows like "KUNG FU" or movies like KUNG FU PANDA. Kwai Chang Kane is just a TV character. When students from a specific style tells you you are practicing it all wrong, question your teachers about it. Especially when all you know is in question from ALL styles claimed.

This is, perhaps, hsk's least annoying post of all time and actually makes sense. It would be super awesome if the thread could just end with it and we could all just move on with our lives.