Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[hskwarrior]

Actually, by my count it would be 30 to 40 forms. Some of the stuff that Sin The claimed to make up was taught independantly in Indonesia (the videos that were removed confirmed that). So you look at all the SD material that is unique to SD and cross reference it with what Hiang The is teaching and that's a pretty good indicator of the unique SD material. Add some of the other material that we know came from Indonesia (Buddha Fist, Ground Dragon, 14th and 15th Crane) and that's a list of material that I feel fairly confident is unique to SD.

All the stuff that is taught elsewhere: taiji, bagua, xingyi, hua, the identifiable mantis forms, etc., then that could have been pilfered from other sources or some of that material could have been taught in Indonesia (will will never know which is which).

so where did the monkey beaks come from? Indonesia?

[Kymus]

At least 3 people have come onto this thread who had the potential and willingness to share a little of the origins of Shaolin Do. They were trolled, ignored, or insulted. Leads me to believe that even Shaolin Do people do not really want the truth. There is some information out there but it takes a lot of digging to find it without help from people that know, why would they help you if you can not even show a minimum of interest and gratitude?

Speaking as a non-SD person who has read the entirety of this thread, I think any negative reaction from the SD crowd (aside from a few hardcore koolaid drinkers) has been likely due to the fact that anyone can come on here and claim anything. Couple that with the fact that these guys get trolled regularly, and you've got something that requires a good amount of knowledge and proof to be deemed trustworthy.

[Empty_Cup]

so where did the monkey beaks come from? Indonesia?

Who other than Jake Mace has ever mentioned monkey beaks?

[Kymus]

so where did the monkey beaks come from? Indonesia?

My guess is either Jake Mace or the Soards. JP said he's never heard of that cr@p.

I never learned monkey beaks. Must have missed that class.

[Kymus]

Who other than Jake Mace has ever mentioned monkey beaks?

Has anyone else here trained with the Soards?

Though... I think Jake Mace is kinda eccentric with how he teaches.. so it wouldn't surprised me if it's his way of dumbing things down or some nonsense.

[Empty_Cup]

At least 3 people have come onto this thread who had the potential and willingness to share a little of the origins of Shaolin Do. They were trolled, ignored, or insulted. Leads me to believe that even Shaolin Do people do not really want the truth. There is some information out there but it takes a lot of digging to find it without help from people that know, why would they help you if you can not even show a minimum of interest and gratitude?

So are you saying SD or non-SD people were doing the trolling? I think for the most part the SD people on here have been far and away the more level-headed and respectful...

[Old Noob]

But didn't Mas Judt say it was Kun Tao? Or did he just say it resembled it a lot?).

He said that he was looking into some information or had some information that showed that it was Kun Tao. It was very cryptic. Then he dropped the mic and left the room seldom to return (and never with the information). I would have liked to have heard what he knew in more detail.

[Old Noob]

I think if you edit out the trolls (sorry HSK most of your posts wouldn't make the cut), then it would be an interesting read to anyone interested in SD and it's real origins.

It would also be only about 100 pages.

[Empty_Cup]

Has anyone else here trained with the Soards?

Though... I think Jake Mace is kinda eccentric with how he teaches.. so it wouldn't surprised me if it's his way of dumbing things down or some nonsense.

The video that first sparked HSK's tirade was of Jake Mace, IIRC. And from what I remember (it's been awhile) he was basically doing a monkey form and said, "hold your hand like this...kind of like a beak."

Other than that, I've also never heard anybody talk about monkey beaks.

So, yeah, like somebody mentioned before: hsk sucks

[hskwarrior]

So, yeah, like somebody mentioned before: hsk sucks

The video that first sparked HSK's tirade was of Jake Mace, IIRC. And from what I remember (it's been awhile) he was basically doing a monkey form and said, "hold your hand like this...kind of like a beak."

why does the MONKEY do a TIGER Dive? huh???????? speak up!!!
it's like saying "the crane flies through the skies like a monkey from tree to tree." LMAO

[hskwarrior]

So are you saying SD or non-SD people were doing the trolling? I think for the most part the SD people on here have been far and away the more level-headed and respectful...

you kinda have to. in this kung fu world, you're like unwanted guests. LOL

[Kymus]

So are you saying SD or non-SD people were doing the trolling? I think for the most part the SD people on here have been far and away the more level-headed and respectful...

technically speaking... it was a mess when this thread started. After that.. it was def 2 or 3 koolaid drinkers. 2 of them wanted to be tuff guys, and the other was basically yelling at "us" saying how "we" only do "wushu" and he does real kung fu.

So it really depends on the time period.

[Judge Pen]

so where did the monkey beaks come from? Indonesia?

From Jake Mace as far as I can tell. I did SD for 20 years and never heard of monkey beaks, but my teachers were not the same as Mace's so who knows what the hell the Soards teach out there.

[Kymus]

From Jake Mace as far as I can tell. I did SD for 20 years and never heard of monkey beaks, but my teachers were not the same as Mace's so who knows what the hell the Soards teach out there.

Anyone wanna go undercover and train there for a month to tell us how crazy it is over there?

[Iron Palm]

Has anyone else here trained with the Soards?

Though... I think Jake Mace is kinda eccentric with how he teaches.. so it wouldn't surprised me if it's his way of dumbing things down or some nonsense.

I've trained with them, but was never one of their "students".

None of the instructors on the west side were ever very specific with posture names, and even less so with using consistent terminology to refer to individual movements. It was always just a lot of "now punch this direction, now turn and punch that direction with your fist horizontal" etc. If a particular movement showed up enough times in a given form, or in several forms, it was usually given a nickname that the particular instructor thought was fitting.

One example was "monkey roll", the nickname for a kind of diagonal somersault over the shoulder featured in non-monkey forms. Another was "beak(s)", the nickname for a hand position that never made much sense to me but was used in probably 60% of the forms I learned.

The only real consistency I encountered in naming was with the stances, with 4 standing out in my memory: horse stance, bow stance, jade ring stance, and monkey stance. As with the previous examples, one might find a "horse" stance outside of a non-horse form, and the same is true for "monkey" stance.

SD instructors (at least the ones i've known) tend to be fairly sloppy in their instruction because they aren't provided with the guiding principles or essences of the systems they're taught, so they just kind of "run what they brung". I don't fault the junior ones for that, I fault the so-called masters.

Anyway, I've known several of the instructors to blurt out things like "monkey beaks" in a posture with both a "monkey" stance and "beak" hands, just to help the student understand what they want them to do. As far as I know, they weren't saying the posture was called "monkey beaks".

I'm not a fan of the Soards or of anyone I trained with, so this shouldn't be taken as a defense of them or SD. However, of the many criticisms that can be leveled against SD, "monkey beaks" is probably the most asinine.