Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[bawang]

http://youtu.be/i5uRUhbxmCc
What about this little demo. KC

lolololololooolololol

[Iron Palm]

I'd wager most SD people would say that a lot of what is on the following video is a good representation of SD:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81L_RWfRDFs

I don't know any of the people in it, but I believe the monkey demonstration at 8:57 is the much revered Master Bob Green, and I think the man at 26:18 is Master Gary Mullins. There is also a shirtless broadsoard demo by Grandmaster The at 30:20.

A lot of the demos done by the (then) less senior people, as well as the sparring, are a wash. But would anyone one this board say that the demos by the most senior people in SD aren't being performed the "way they should be"?

In the Soard schools, it's always implied that the further back in SD history you go, the more hard core and skilled everyone was. Is this far enough back to get a sense of what SD is like at its best?

For the record, most of what's on that video is significantly better than what I was exposed to under the Soards.

[kwaichang]

When a demo is demo;d they are supposed to be done full out and balls to the wall. That isnt how demos are done in SD it is so people can see the form and enjoy it that is the way all SD demos I have seen have been presented. KC

[Syn7]

In the Soard schools, it's always implied that the further back in SD history you go, the more hard core and skilled everyone was. Is this far enough back to get a sense of what SD is like at its best?

Ahh... the good ol days that never existed.

[Syn7]

When a demo is demo;d they are supposed to be done full out and balls to the wall. That isnt how demos are done in SD it is so people can see the form and enjoy it that is the way all SD demos I have seen have been presented. KC

Sure, but the fact that we rarely see "balls to the wall" demos, and when they do it's just as bad as the flower version, speaks volumes. You can call this "art" all you want. But if you use the word martial in front of the word art, the implication is that it can actually be used in combat. To call something ineffective a martial art is fraud. It's dangerous and irresponsible. It gives false confidence and it gets people hurt. The only people who are considered even somewhat decent "martial artists" are usually people who are involved, or were involved, in other systems.

[Iron Palm]

When a demo is demo;d they are supposed to be done full out and balls to the wall. That isnt how demos are done in SD it is so people can see the form and enjoy it that is the way all SD demos I have seen have been presented. KC

Judging from the comments of yours I have read over time, you have significantly more years of experience than I do with martial arts in general, and with SD specifically. I am unfamiliar with most of the forms in the video, and I am asking, in a genuinely open-ended way, if the above comment means you think that, say, the broadsword demo by GMT is fundamentally correct, but not performed at full speed and vigor?

As many others have said about the many systems SD attempts to teach, each has its own set of guiding principles and philosophies (and by "philosophies" I don't mean "Turn the other cheek rather than initiate a confrontation", I mean "always keep your body turned when fighting to minimize attackable surface areas") Is your contention that the master-level demos in that video are being performed in accordance with the principles/philosophies of the system of which the forms are a part, and merely being done at slow speed/low intensity? If not, why?

For example, a bagua "principle" might be "keep the weight on the back leg," and so you would expect a bagua master to keep his weight on the back leg when performing a demonstration, regardless of how "balls to the wall" he is doing it. You wouldn't expect a bagua master to begin weighting on the front leg, or ignoring weighting altogether, merely because he is doing a low-intensity demonstration, would you?

[kwaichang]

Stare like a monkey, sit like a tiger , hollow the palm and feet, etc, i know the principles and practice them as best as I can, do I get them right all the time ? NO. Can I use the SD stuff as a Martial Art Yes. Few times in true combat are all the rules adhered to.
I roll my shins with a steel bar 100 x per day 5 days a week. JP has seen and lifted the bar it is rolled steel. If I sweep you shin to shin or you me your leg will break most likely. I punch bags of rocks and palm hit them , one bag is dust the other is waiting to be.
Do all SD people even Master Level do this prob not. Not all BB are good. So while I am at a demo I often Cringe and turn away but I have seen where those people were before and can see improvement. I just love all MA but not all M Artists.
I wish there were better vids of SD people as all are not bad people and many are sincere in what they do.
I wish I had a vid of my forms prior to my injury . You may not be impressed but I do hope you would be a lttle less judgemental about some of the others you have seen. KC

[kwaichang]

When I would teach a form 7 star, Tiger, Hung or eeven western boxing technique I took a move from the form and taught an application the ap was exactly as it was done in the form. Then I would have them work on it. Most of the time they would immediately *******ize the moves to "make them work" that is why the demos with aps and sparring looks as it does. Every one wants to be the next Bruce lee Much like Jake. They all want to own what they have learned but few are willing to work hard enough to claim true ownership. KC

[bodhi warrior]

I'd wager most SD people would say that a lot of what is on the following video is a good representation of SD:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81L_RWfRDFs

I don't know any of the people in it, but I believe the monkey demonstration at 8:57 is the much revered Master Bob Green, and I think the man at 26:18 is Master Gary Mullins. There is also a shirtless broadsoard demo by Grandmaster The at 30:20.

A lot of the demos done by the (then) less senior people, as well as the sparring, are a wash. But would anyone one this board say that the demos by the most senior people in SD aren't being performed the "way they should be"?

In the Soard schools, it's always implied that the further back in SD history you go, the more hard core and skilled everyone was. Is this far enough back to get a sense of what SD is like at its best?

For the record, most of what's on that video is significantly better than what I was exposed to under the Soards.

I liked this one. Some good stuff displayed the senior guys.
It's 100 times better than what passes as a demo today.
I really liked it.

[Kellen Bassette]

I roll my shins with a steel bar 100 x per day 5 days a week.

Do you also do shin conditioning on gravel bags, or just the palms, feet..ect?

[kwaichang]

I used to kick makiwara as well and 2x4;s but I cant now . I live in an appartment now I kick sapling trees about 2-3 inches round . till they shake. I also use chinese Jao for healing. due to my injury this training is easy.KC

[kwaichang]

http://youtu.be/Fqu9lfZ9aEg
This has some good forms I had them all listed and Times they start at about 40 minutes in , sorry I lost the post KC

[hskwarrior]

When I would teach a form 7 star, Tiger, Hung or eeven western boxing technique I took a move from the form and taught an application the ap was exactly as it was done in the form. Then I would have them work on it. Most of the time they would immediately *******ize the moves to "make them work" that is why the demos with aps and sparring looks as it does. Every one wants to be the next Bruce lee Much like Jake. They all want to own what they have learned but few are willing to work hard enough to claim true ownership. KC

i respect this

[Kymus]

http://youtu.be/Fqu9lfZ9aEg
This has some good forms I had them all listed and Times they start at about 40 minutes in , sorry I lost the post KC

The forms all have the SD flavor. They're either rigid in movements or they're just waving their arms around.

So again, either we compare SD to Kung Fu and the movement should be performed like Kung Fu, or SD is it's own thing and no one has an answer on how a SD form should be done.

[hskwarrior]

The forms all have the SD flavor. They're either rigid in movements or they're just waving their arms around.

true. there is ZERO gung fu in every essence when i say that. also, i couldn't believe my ears when they would speak kind words about the white female performer and when the black guy with the sword who did better then the others IMO and they sounded like he didn't do a good job. one of them say "find out when you get to 46" or something like that.

So again, either we compare SD to Kung Fu and the movement should be performed like Kung Fu, or SD is it's own thing and no one has an answer on how a SD form should be done.

the feeling off of them is like why should be look like THEM, we're NOT them. it looks like no one ever put some serious training in at all. just simply memorized the moves and thats it. and to see black belts on.....oh thats even worse