Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Orion Paximus]

I like reading this thread for the back an forth and like I've said before I have no dog in this fight, however in regard to learning a form different ways from different teachers; I was taught Xiaohongquan by three different teachers and they taught me 3 different forms. Not radically different in aesthetic but different enough that the applications of some of the movements radically change.

[Judge Pen]

thats Cult Leader mind control sh1t right there

I'm not arguing with you. Like I said, there a very big difference in my experience and many students that I've met that were taught by teachers under the Soards' system.

[bawang]

so when r u guys gonna learn the real shaolin?

[JSE]

When there is someone that is a "Real Shaolin" master in East TN. Not too many options around here. Although I am happy where I am, I would love to study a traditional style as well.

[Iron Palm]

I like reading this thread for the back an forth and like I've said before I have no dog in this fight, however in regard to learning a form different ways from different teachers; I was taught Xiaohongquan by three different teachers and they taught me 3 different forms. Not radically different in aesthetic but different enough that the applications of some of the movements radically change.

I understand what you're saying and of course it's to be expected that different people will have different interpretations of forms. However, what I was attempting to describe is different: at the Soard schools, you could learn the same form 3 different ways under the same instructor in the span of 3 months. The overnight changes usually occur after one of the periodic "instructor training" sessions the Soards require of those under them, where they supposedly use mind control tactics such as sleep deprivation.

For example, you could (and I have):

1) Spend a lot of one on one time with a very senior instructor (i.e. someone who should know brown/black material inside and out) preparing for a test, poring over various forms, asking for and receiving feedback, and being told in no uncertain terms to do, say, Movement X.

2) Travel to Denver (required location for most testing) for the test, perform Movement X and score very well (74-75).

3) Return to your school and continue training Movement X while your instructor stays behind at "instructor training"

4) Upon his return, find your instructor regarding you with confusion as he watches you perform the exact Movement X he demonstrated and approved merely 1 week prior, saying "no that's wrong"

5) Witness a bizarre cover-up wherein the next time that form is taught or reviewed during an actual class, the instructor implements the changes with phrases like "I'm seeing students doing X, but that's wrong and I don't know where they got the idea they should be doing X, instead you should be doing Y", and meeting objections with "nothing has changed, it's always been Y, this is the way the monks have always done it"

Every instructor I trained with did this, in the exact same way, as though they were being told how to do it, or at least having it done to them. Now consider that instructor training occurs 6-10 times per year, and maybe 3-4 different forms are "reviewed" each time.

There are variations. Sometimes Movement X is omitted entirely and/or new ones are added. But I lived through enough of it to see X become Y, Y become Z, Z be omitted, Y be re-added, and finally become X once again, in many different forms, all to the steady tempo of Soard instructor brainwashing.

[Kymus]

When there is someone that is a "Real Shaolin" master in East TN. Not too many options around here. Although I am happy where I am, I would love to study a traditional style as well.

Yeah, I think by and large all the old school masters live in coastal cities. Mostly NY an California.

[Judge Pen]

I understand what you're saying and of course it's to be expected that different people will have different interpretations of forms. However, what I was attempting to describe is different: at the Soard schools, you could learn the same form 3 different ways under the same instructor in the span of 3 months. The overnight changes usually occur after one of the periodic "instructor training" sessions the Soards require of those under them, where they supposedly use mind control tactics such as sleep deprivation.

For example, you could (and I have):

1) Spend a lot of one on one time with a very senior instructor (i.e. someone who should know brown/black material inside and out) preparing for a test, poring over various forms, asking for and receiving feedback, and being told in no uncertain terms to do, say, Movement X.

2) Travel to Denver (required location for most testing) for the test, perform Movement X and score very well (74-75).

3) Return to your school and continue training Movement X while your instructor stays behind at "instructor training"

4) Upon his return, find your instructor regarding you with confusion as he watches you perform the exact Movement X he demonstrated and approved merely 1 week prior, saying "no that's wrong"

5) Witness a bizarre cover-up wherein the next time that form is taught or reviewed during an actual class, the instructor implements the changes with phrases like "I'm seeing students doing X, but that's wrong and I don't know where they got the idea they should be doing X, instead you should be doing Y", and meeting objections with "nothing has changed, it's always been Y, this is the way the monks have always done it"

Every instructor I trained with did this, in the exact same way, as though they were being told how to do it, or at least having it done to them. Now consider that instructor training occurs 6-10 times per year, and maybe 3-4 different forms are "reviewed" each time.

There are variations. Sometimes Movement X is omitted entirely and/or new ones are added. But I lived through enough of it to see X become Y, Y become Z, Z be omitted, Y be re-added, and finally become X once again, in many different forms, all to the steady tempo of Soard instructor brainwashing.

That's bat**** crazy. I learned forms different ways from different instructors, but never like that from the same instructor. When I trained under Master Garry, he would have a mandatory meeting for black sashes where we would have to perform all of our standard materials and complete a rigorous conditioning class because, in his words, if you are going to claim the rank under him then you are going to have to meet his expected standards. He did everything with us--there was never a "do what I say not as I do" attitude. I remember him telling us, while we were holding a horse stance for an extended period of time, "if you stand up go ahead and walk out and leave your sash at the door." He wasn't mean, it was just matter-of-fact. He got tired of seeing so-called "black-belts" who were out of shape.

I compare that to a buddy of mine who moved from East Tennessee to NY. There he started training under a Soard student. The Soards came over for a seminar where they taught "Buddha Fist". In that form there is a single-leg squat and only a couple of people there could do it (my friend and his instructor). No only could the Soards not do the move, but they said they didn't want to try and fail because "it would disrespect Buddha." He called me right after the seminar because he couldn't believe what he saw.

[Kymus]

Not only could the Soards not do the move, but they said they didn't want to try and fail because "it would disrespect Buddha." He called me right after the seminar because he couldn't believe what he saw.

[Iron Palm]

No only could the Soards not do the move, but they said they didn't want to try and fail because "it would disrespect Buddha." He called me right after the seminar because he couldn't believe what he saw.

Years ago at an outdoor seminar, a student offered to let Sharon Soard wear her sunglasses. Her response: "No thank you, they distort the true nature of reality."

[bawang]

When there is someone that is a "Real Shaolin" master in East TN. Not too many options around here. Although I am happy where I am, I would love to study a traditional style as well.

in my humble opinion, if you just watch xiaohongquan on youtube and mimic it for 10 min, it would be 1000x better than what you learned for 10 years.

[Kymus]

Years ago at an outdoor seminar, a student offered to let Sharon Soard wear her sunglasses. Her response: "No thank you, they distort the true nature of reality."

I think we officially need a Sh!t The Soards Say thread.

[Judge Pen]

in my humble opinion, if you just watch xiaohongquan on youtube and mimic it for 10 min, it would be 1000x better than what you learned for 10 years.

Bull****. That would not teach me to fight. What I learned may be ugly and a poor example of CMA fluidity and mechanics, but I can use it to protect myself. I have the reports of respected forum members to back that up.

[bawang]

Bull****. That would not teach me to fight. What I learned may be ugly and a poor example of CMA fluidity and mechanics, but I can use it to protect myself. I have the reports of respected forum members to back that up.

its better to learn real shaolin and not know how to fight, than learning weird ass fake kung fu then doing some half ass kickboxing.

[bodhi warrior]

in my humble opinion, if you just watch xiaohongquan on youtube and mimic it for 10 min, it would be 1000x better than what you learned for 10 years.

That form is pretty. But I doubt it would make someone a better fighter. Better dancer maybe.

[Kellen Bassette]

That form is pretty. But I doubt it would make someone a better fighter. Better dancer maybe.

Xiao Hong Quan is a pretty form???