View Poll Results: What to do about the 'Is Shaolin-Do for real?' thread

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  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts!

    22 38.60%
  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Let all the S-D threads stand independently.

    13 22.81%
  • Keep IS-Dfr locked down. All IS-Dfr posters deserved to be punished.

    5 8.77%
  • Delete them all. Let Yama sort them out.

    17 29.82%
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Thread: Is Shaolin-Do for real?

  1. #181
    Radhnoti Guest
    BKH, I gave my real life experience as you say you gave yours. I guess we're giving what a scientist might call "anecdotal evidece", and obviously my anecdotes are on the opposite end of the spectrum from yours. Sorry if you were upset by my lighthearted poke at your "sad pattern". Me and Hervé Villechaize thought it was at least a little funny, but he laughs about everything these days.
    Fu Pow, I read that article...I assumed Dr. Yang Jwing Ming was only talking about CMA's...and that in his estimation it's alright for a CMA to be "hard as a staff". Note that a staff does bend a bit...and that SD doesn't just consist of hard, straight mostly unflexable motions, but even if it did MY understanding of what he was saying was that there are CMA's like that.
    You said, "The point is that there is no geniune art which is hard and inflexible."
    So, I suppose I'll disagree with you on that. I may have misread him or you, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

  2. #182
    Silumkid Guest
    Willow,

    Very good! I dig that movie....the training scenes are awesome!

    I do have Snake and Crane....another great one! In fact, my Hong Kong DVD collection is what one might call close to outrageous. I had to get rid of a few because my rack can no longer contain them all! I have all of Jet's movies (so far)...the only one I can't find on DVD is Dragon Fight. So if anybody knows where I can find that, shoot me a line! Please?

    Amitabha!

    We are trained in wushu; we must protect the Temple!

  3. #183
    Fu-Pow Guest

    Rahnohti

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> and that in his estimation it's alright for a CMA to be "hard as a staff". [/quote]

    I guess the staff I'm thinking of is flexible. I assume the one Dr.Yang is referring to is flexible also because he does CMA. Not the oak Bo staffs used by Karateka.


    Let me put in context for you. We have 70 some odd years on this planet. The first 35 of them we have abundant muscular strength. We can tone and shape our muscles to do amazing things. We can make them extremely fast and explosive. For the last 35 our muscle strength deteriorates now matter how hard we train.

    Therefore, as far as CMA's go, it is practical to teach younger students techniques which utilize their own musculature to their advantage (this is a bit oversimplified but stay with me)

    However, this doesn't work once the practitioner is past a certain age. Therefore, the older practitioner must rely on technique and other non-muscular ways of power generation and speed. Hence, Neijia ie Taiji, Bagua, Hsing-Yi. Neijia is essentially a shortcut to these non-muscular techniques.

    Now it is not that other arts don't contain these internal aspects, only that they are not emphasized from day one. In fact, I would venture to say that the ****her you get from the root of CMA the less they are emphasized from day one. So for example, although Choy Lay Fut is not Taiji we rely less on muscular effort than an art like Tae Kwon Do or Karate (aikido excluded of course). At the higher levels of our art we have the Crane Form (Hok Ying Kuen). This form relies very little on muscular effort and more on balance, technique and precision. Once you learn Hok Ying then you can go back thru your forms and "internalize" the rest of your forms, even the ones that intially relied on muscle. (BTW, before I get flamed, Hok Ying is not internal in the same sense that an art like Taiji is, it is simply another way to deal with deteriorating muscle. Also, Hok Ying is even less "internal" than some higher level forms like Sup Ying which I don't know that much about. )

    In my opinion Shaolin-Do looks like it uses lots of muscular effort, even in its "internal" forms.

    Fu-Pow



    "Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu does not encourage its students to abuse or harm others with no reason. Nevertheless, in times when Kung Fu must be performed, Choy Lay Fut requires the student to change from a gentleman into a fierce and cold fighter."

    -Lee Koon Hung,
    CLF:The Dynamic Art of Fighting

  4. #184
    Radhnoti Guest
    Fu-Pow, great post. I've yet to learn a real "internal" form, so (this time ;) ) I'll not argue a point I have no personal experience with. However, I'd ask this one question...are you basing your opinion on internet video? They had internet video of aikido's founder linked on the main forum the other day...and folks were attacking his form, etc. In my opinion, he'd have been far more impressive in person...and I suspect the same can be said of SD forms.

  5. #185
    reemul Guest

    You seem to be missing the point Rad

    People have seen SD in person and if anything its
    less impressive.

  6. #186
    Radhnoti Guest
    I've met folks that've seen it and been impressed, myself included. I know BKH has seen it in person and is unimpressed, as are you. I won't be surprised if you are slightly more impressed come November...at least with it's combative value. I know that not everyone agrees with me, I hope that you have the wisdom to see that not everyone agrees with you either.

  7. #187
    Fu-Pow Guest
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> However, I'd ask this one question...are you basing your opinion on internet video? They had internet video of aikido's founder linked on the main forum the other day...and folks were attacking his form, etc. In my opinion, he'd have been far more impressive in person...and I suspect the same can be said of SD forms.
    [/quote]

    Yes, I'm basing my opinion on internet video. As for people attacking the aikido videos I'd say they don't know what they are talking about.

    In reality I'm not really attacking Shaolin-Do's martial technique. Because in reality it is Karate. Karate has gotten a bad rap over the years by kung fu guys for various reasons. But the truth is, well done Karate is effective and at higher levels becomes more "internal" ie relies less on muscular strenght more on precision, technique and non-muscular modes of power generation. It can be like the "staff" in terms of the Dr. yang article.

    But let's be honest here. The real core of Shaolin-Do technique is Kempo karate. There is nothing wrong with that, very effective. You can reach a high level of martial proficiency in this system. But Shaolin-Do makes outrageous claims about what it is teaching. I study a CMA but I would never make a claim that I was master of 40-50 of the 300 Chinese MAs out there. Yet Shaolin-Do people teach everything from Chen Taiji to Monkey Kung Fu. At most, a person is capable of mastering one, maybe two, styles of kung fu in a life time.
    Sin The is probably really great at Kempo. Is he so insecure in his Karate ability that he has to concoct these wild stories? Just call it what it is there is no shame in that.........but the truth is he has created "Shaolin-Do" to make more money. Because that is what is popular now.

    Fu-Pow



    "Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu does not encourage its students to abuse or harm others with no reason. Nevertheless, in times when Kung Fu must be performed, Choy Lay Fut requires the student to change from a gentleman into a fierce and cold fighter."

    -Lee Koon Hung,
    CLF:The Dynamic Art of Fighting

  8. #188
    cho Guest

    This is just coming out of the blue so...

    I got past my parents' divorce. I'm sure all of you can get past your martial art being fake.

  9. #189
    The Willow Sword Guest

    REEMUL got your letter

    thankyou for the info on your school. i also read the note attached. since i now know your name i will not reveal it to keep your annonymity.
    sounds good and i accept the terms.
    my challenge still stands but i must apologize to you for my anger and mouth boxing,,i will NOT confront you with anger or spite. i will confront you as an antagonist and a martial artist who wishes to prove to you that my system and school are not what you opinionate it to be.
    with that in mind i will see you in november.
    Many Respects, Willow Sword.

    Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
    oh and,,,Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you are an a$.

  10. #190
    Radhnoti Guest
    Nicely done TWS, and cho I'm sorry about your parents. It's a tough thing, nearly destroyed my cousin when he was 12 years old.
    Fu-Pow, to be honest, I wouldn't care if GM Sin came out tomorrow and called SD kempo. You think he lies and have never met him. TWS thinks he's telling the truth and has had tea with him. BKH is certain he's lying...and has been there through a lot of the history. My instructor thinks he's telling the truth and has been there through a lot of the history. Your protestations I take far less seriously than BKH's. Why? You've (as far as I know) never seen a SD form, you've never met a SD instructor. I hope you can understand why I think your critique is silly. You can't judge forms via the internet...well, you can, but not fairly. GM Sin teaches a lot of forms, but people usually concentrate their efforts on one specific system. The Tigers. Tai Chi. Hsing-Yi (sp?). Crane and so on. No students of Sin The' that I've met have claimed mastery of every form.

  11. #191
    HuangKaiVun Guest
    The Willow Sword, what style does reemul practice?

    I asked him in the other thread and he directed me here, but I didn't see anything other than the fact that he studies "Shaolin".

  12. #192
    reemul Guest

    Northern Shaolin Tiger System

    :)

  13. #193
    HuangKaiVun Guest
    Thanks, reemul.

    Is it related to the style featured in the book that's out in bookstores?

  14. #194
    Fu-Pow Guest

    Radnohti

    In your last post you imply that I am somehow unqualified to post on this thread. Sorry, I didn't know there were prerequisites. What style do you do again?

    Fu-Pow



    "Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu does not encourage its students to abuse or harm others with no reason. Nevertheless, in times when Kung Fu must be performed, Choy Lay Fut requires the student to change from a gentleman into a fierce and cold fighter."

    -Lee Koon Hung,
    CLF:The Dynamic Art of Fighting

  15. #195
    Radhnoti Guest
    Shaolin-Do. Gee, thought you knew that.
    I stated my opinion that anyone judging a style via realplayer is silly. Is that what you're doing? Or have you actually seen an SD practicioner go through a form? :confused:

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