View Poll Results: What to do about the 'Is Shaolin-Do for real?' thread

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  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts!

    22 38.60%
  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Let all the S-D threads stand independently.

    13 22.81%
  • Keep IS-Dfr locked down. All IS-Dfr posters deserved to be punished.

    5 8.77%
  • Delete them all. Let Yama sort them out.

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Thread: Is Shaolin-Do for real?

  1. #196
    Fu-Pow Guest
    So your saying that in order for me to make comments about Shaolin-Do I have to have seen the forms in person? Gheeesh...

    Ok....first of all. Even if I wanted to see Shaolin-Do in person that would be impossible because there is no Shaolin-Do in my area (Pacific Northwest). Secondly, from what I understand Shaolin-Doers never compete in any tournaments with other schools, so I would never see it there.

    My comments are based on the following things....

    1) Internet Video Clips from Shaolin Center

    2) The history, theory, curriculum of Shaolin-Do off the Shaolin-Do website

    3) Other posters comments

    So I've seen the clips, read the history, read the newsletters, etc.

    I think I've seen enough to know that this stuff is ridiculous. Especially when the Chen Taiji form (which I practice) looks nothing like Taiji of any kind.

    It seems you are trying to set some sort of prerequisite here in order for me to discuss this topic or discredit my opinion because I have never "experienced" Shaolin-Do. Ok fine...but I still think my comments are valid whether you think so or not. So you can either address my questions and opinions or you can continue to adress the validity of those opinions. Regardless, I will continue to post on Shaolin-Do because I think it is a fraudulent organization.

    Fu-Pow



    "Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu does not encourage its students to abuse or harm others with no reason. Nevertheless, in times when Kung Fu must be performed, Choy Lay Fut requires the student to change from a gentleman into a fierce and cold fighter."

    -Lee Koon Hung,
    CLF:The Dynamic Art of Fighting

  2. #197
    Radhnoti Guest
    Look, Fu Pow, obviously it IS my intent to discredit you, as I disagree with you. Just as your intent is to discredit shaolin-do. Don't take it so personally. You're basing your entire opinion of SD on what you've been able to piece together via the internet, I'm just pointing that out.
    Obviously, I intend to respond to your comments, informed in my opinion or no.
    Like you were worried I was gonna quit posting...ha! ;)

  3. #198
    MonkeySlap Too Guest
    Just saw the old pictures of Sin The' on the Austin SD website.

    Tell me that isn't Karate.

    You see, THAT is what Fu Pow comes to and questions. Combative CMA does NOT look like Karate. Really.

    Just stating my opinion - although no-one really cares....

    I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

  4. #199
    Fu-Pow Guest
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Just as your intent is to discredit shaolin-do. [/quote]

    My intent is to discredit Shaolin-Do as a SHAOLIN martial art. There may PEOPLE within the Shaolin-Do organization that are very good at karate and for all I know could kick my ass. Karate can be a very effective martial art depending on the practitioner. But my point is that I do a real Shaolin martial art as well as a real Wudang martial art. And Shaolin-Do is "c" none of the above.

    Fu-Pow



    "Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu does not encourage its students to abuse or harm others with no reason. Nevertheless, in times when Kung Fu must be performed, Choy Lay Fut requires the student to change from a gentleman into a fierce and cold fighter."

    -Lee Koon Hung,
    CLF:The Dynamic Art of Fighting

  5. #200
    HuangKaiVun Guest
    As long as the SD disciples are HAPPY with their Chen form, it doesn't matter how hard Fu-Pow tries to discredit their style.

    If he manages to drive people away from SD, good for him.

    He'll have accomplished his goal, and SD won't be infested by those who spend more time worrying about what others think as opposed to TRYING first and COMPLAINING LATER.

  6. #201
    Radhnoti Guest
    If you are saying that Fu-Pow would only discourage those who'd be discouraged later anyway, I think you have a good point Huang...
    Fu-Pow, I'll tell you why I disagree with your belief that your definition of "shaolin" is the only valid one.
    No one can define shaolin anymore. No one will LET someone else define shaolin, if they have the slightest link to the temple then they feel theirs has the "true" lineage or spirit or ...whatever. Try telling folks that study styles passed down from those fleeing the temple that they can't call their style shaolin anymore. You're getting worked up over a word that has no definition that anyone can agree on.
    There exists shaolin kempo karate, shaolin martial arts academy (teaching karate), the international Shaolin Kenpo Assoc. , and I'm sure a million more. You imagine someday you'll be able to "reign in" everyone claiming shaolin lineage and "reclaim" the name for your style? You have as much chance of doing this as GM Sin had to unite all shaolin schools under his banner (if this happened, which I have no reason to doubt). Shaolin had such a HUGE impact on the Eastern world, it's hard to find a style NOT influenced in some way by the temple. If you're ACTUAL problem with SD is the word shaolin, you'll never be satisfied. If SD fell apart tomorrow, you'd still have thousands of schools with the name shaolin and all of them would be doing "shaolin" different than you.
    Honest question, what is your definition of shaolin Fu-Pow? You say your shaolin is "real", would everyone on the forum agree with you? I ask these questions respectfully, please don't take offense...I never intentionally attack someone's style or school reputation.

  7. #202
    reemul Guest

    To HuangKaiVun

    No

  8. #203
    qy Guest

    All right the semi-annual SLD Bash!!!

    I just love these threads.

    Ok Ok Illusionfist, Sin The says the Buddha fist form you saw is EXTERNAL. It was made a point to me cus the advertisement that was created to promote the class in 1993 or so incorrectly listed this as an internal form, so unless the rules changed again (which they very well may have) this is an external form. As Sin The explaned Internal /External have nothing to do with hard or soft. iternal flavor? By the way how the flip can you learn anything well in 5 hours? (this is a rhetorical question)

    Have we addressed that SLD claims the Tiger Crane form as it's OWN? I quess thats OK if they are nice guys doing it?

    SLD is going to continue to grow and profit. People are going to keep up the tradition for their own reasons. (for the most part $$) Yes most of the, can we say "original material" is Kenpo like. Yes they have assimilated some other systems, Chen Tai Chi, Hung Ga, Mantis, so on. If you look at the SLD history, the old stuff Sin and his Bro Demo KARATE like stuff. As time went on they got more material from several sources. Now we even have buddhafist forms with internal flavor??

    SLD peeps please do not give the regular standard preprogrammed responses.......I know all about it. :rolleyes:

  9. #204
    Fu-Pow Guest
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> No one can define shaolin anymore. No one will LET someone else define shaolin, if they have the slightest link to the temple then they feel theirs has the "true" lineage or spirit or ...whatever. Try telling folks that study styles passed down from those fleeing the temple that they can't call their style shaolin anymore. [/quote]


    So , in your opinion, if no one can agree what it is then why do people insist on putting it in front of their school's name?

    Fu-Pow



    "Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu does not encourage its students to abuse or harm others with no reason. Nevertheless, in times when Kung Fu must be performed, Choy Lay Fut requires the student to change from a gentleman into a fierce and cold fighter."

    -Lee Koon Hung,
    CLF:The Dynamic Art of Fighting

  10. #205
    Crimson Phoenix Guest
    Fu pow, it's just because if you cannot see far, you have to climb on the shoulders of someone bigger than you...if you see what I mean...many arts in China tried to trace back their lineage to shaolin in a way or the other, because it was a prestigious name and symbol...nowadays, Shaolin is a name that sells even better...
    And if you want my opinion, ANY school claiming they have the original form of any art is dreaming (or trying to make YOU dream, for that matter)...I had a discussion with Shaolindynasty lately (or Shaolintiger, maybe), who had compared just ONE form passed from a single source to different students, and its evolution in these lineages...well, in the end NO ONE had the same exact form...so forget about peeps who say they have an original style, or at least the ones who say their style was practiced exactly like this back in the days...
    As for the Chen taiji form, it's quite easy to verify: you go to Chen family village, Chenjia gou in China and you look at the peeps here...if the Chen might not be exactly the same as back the days, you'll get at least the idea of what Chen should be like...
    Just some thoughts
    Just some thoughts...

  11. #206
    Radhnoti Guest
    qy. Semi-annual? Where've you been hangin' out? It's 24/7 around here. :D Your questions seem to center around specific forms, which I have no experience with...so (for once) I'll keep my mouth shut.
    Fu-Pow, I agree with Crimson Phoenix that some do so for the money. However, I also believe some truly believe (and perhaps are) carrying on a sacred trust given them by their sifu. You're assuming that most choose to name their own style, I think most simply carry on a name already chosen by someone else. If you're teaching something your sifu called Shaolin Golden Monkey wouldn't it be disrespectful to rename it? At least that's my take on the situation...

  12. #207
    HuangKaiVun Guest
    To me, it ain't "Shaolin" without the Ch'an.

  13. #208
    Fu-Pow Guest
    Crimson Phoenix

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> And if you want my opinion, ANY school claiming they have the original form of any art is dreaming (or trying to make YOU dream, for that matter)...I had a discussion with Shaolindynasty lately (or Shaolintiger, maybe), who had compared just ONE form passed from a single source to different students, and its evolution in these lineages...well, in the end NO ONE had the same exact form.. [/quote]

    Well, duh. I see this king of thing in my own style. No one does the forms EXACTLY the same. However, they are MOSTLY the same. The essence of the form remains the same. Furthermore, across southern shaolin styles there are lots of similarities eg Hung Gar, Lau Gar, Choy Lay Fut, Bak Mei, etc, etc. They are all derivatives of Shaolin and you can readily tell this. They are just different interpretations of the original art.

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> As for the Chen taiji form, it's quite easy to verify: you go to Chen family village, Chenjia gou in China and you look at the peeps here...if the Chen might not be exactly the same as back the days, you'll get at least the idea of what Chen should be like...
    [/quote]

    Without naming names here. My lineage of Chen Taiji is from one of Chen Fake's students. After the communist revolution had passed he had to go back and reteach the Chen village Taiji because it had been eradicated there. Therefore, I pretty sure I have a source to the "real" Chen Taiji. Where did Sin The learn his Taiji? Although Neijia arts are derivative of Shaolin they developed separately from the temple. So how can he make any claim that it is part of the "original" curriculum?


    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You're assuming that most choose to name their own style, I think most simply carry on a name already chosen by someone else. If you're teaching something your sifu called Shaolin Golden Monkey wouldn't it be disrespectful to rename it? At least that's my take on the situation... [/quote]

    First of all, are you saying that this "art" has always been know as Shaolin-Do? Are saying this is the original name? Secondly, technically my style of kung fu is Shaolin Hung-Sing Choy Lay Fut Gung Fu. But we rarely include the Shaolin in front of the name. It is not one of major "selling points."

    Fu-Pow



    "Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu does not encourage its students to abuse or harm others with no reason. Nevertheless, in times when Kung Fu must be performed, Choy Lay Fut requires the student to change from a gentleman into a fierce and cold fighter."

    -Lee Koon Hung,
    CLF:The Dynamic Art of Fighting

  14. #209
    Silumkid Guest
    I was looking at some web sites the other day and I found a few different Shaolin-Do sites. Someone had been commenting before about a "Golden Cockroach" form...I thought it was a joke, but the particular site I found DID have a "Golden Roaches - 6 forms" listed...??? Does anyone know about this form and what it entails, for my own edification?

    Also, a different site had Buddha Fist as "a form related to Tai Chi" which does lead me to believe it is internal. BUT, qy posted that Sin The says it is external....so now I am confused again.

    Any clarification would be appreciated.

    Amitabha!

    We are trained in wushu; we must protect the Temple!

  15. #210
    Fu-Pow Guest
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Also, a different site had Buddha Fist as "a form related to Tai Chi" which does lead me to believe it is internal. BUT, qy posted that Sin The says it is external....so now I am confused again.

    [/quote]

    If you look further up the thread I posted a quote of the website. It states that the form is Fut Gar Kuen or Buddha Fist. It also states that it is Choy Lay Fut. As a Shaolin derivative Choy Lay Fut is an "external art" any Chi Gung associated w/ Choy Lay Fut is probably some sort of Iron Shirt chi gung which has Shaolin roots. Fut Gar definitely has nothing to do with Taiji.

    Fu-Pow



    "Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu does not encourage its students to abuse or harm others with no reason. Nevertheless, in times when Kung Fu must be performed, Choy Lay Fut requires the student to change from a gentleman into a fierce and cold fighter."

    -Lee Koon Hung,
    CLF:The Dynamic Art of Fighting

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