View Poll Results: What to do about the 'Is Shaolin-Do for real?' thread

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  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts!

    22 38.60%
  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Let all the S-D threads stand independently.

    13 22.81%
  • Keep IS-Dfr locked down. All IS-Dfr posters deserved to be punished.

    5 8.77%
  • Delete them all. Let Yama sort them out.

    17 29.82%
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Thread: Is Shaolin-Do for real?

  1. #211
    Radhnoti Guest
    Fu-Pow, I'm saying that in his book GM Sin says GM Ie named our system and I've gathered that's the reason we've kept the name and the gis and whatever else.
    GM Sin claims to teach basically as shown by GM Ie.

    In the pictures of the SD group's last trip to China there's a whole series of the Chen village.
    Here's a link to the page:

    http://www.shaolincenter.com/ChinaFotos/zhengzhou.htm

    Also...there's a monument in the Chen village to Grandmaster Sin (bought by SD students) in front of what is termed "the old training facility". Don't know what that means, or who trained there...but here's the pic:



    You say you can always tell a shaolin derived system. What about the ones I mentioned? They claim the name shaolin but don't claim to be CMAs. Where's this gonna lead you Fu-Pow? And what happens when someone...let's say those currently IN the shaolin temple...comes to your school and says, "You don't have the right to the name shaolin. WE are shaolin, stop using our name." :eek:
    Would your school surrender the name to the group most (not using the name shaolin) would consider most deserving of the name? I'd hope not, I'm sure you're school feels QUITE qualified to use the name. As does mine.

  2. #212
    Crimson Phoenix Guest
    Fu Pow, I feel you took my post as an attack...I wasn't attacking your chen taiji, I wasnt attacking anything anyway, just stating some criterions you can use to judge wether or not something could be said "legitimate"...I always get warry when a school says "we have the original form" hence my comment...the YOU in my "make YOU dream" part wasn't...you...but I was referring to people in general...anyway, just some clarifications

  3. #213
    Fu-Pow Guest
    Ok...Sin The's been to Chen Village. His students put this monument up, so what? I could go there and do the same thing.

    As for the other pictures....they just look like your average tourist pictures. Where are the training pictures? Someone as highly recognized as Sin The would have a banquet of honor and some training while he was there? Not even any pictures of any other masters?....again...where did he learn his Taiji?


    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You say you can always tell a shaolin derived system. What about the ones I mentioned? They claim the name shaolin but don't claim to be CMAs. Where's this gonna lead you Fu-Pow? And what happens when someone...let's say those currently IN the shaolin temple...comes to your school and says, "You don't have the right to the name shaolin. WE are shaolin, stop using our name." [/quote]


    Your trying to get me to make a statement against kempo or against those other schools. I won't because I don't know that much about them. And secondly, the kempo school at least acknowledges that it is karate ie everyone knows kempo is karate.

    Also, these schools also probably don't teach other people forms. I'll bet they don't claim to know Taiji, Hsing Yi, Choy Lay Fut, Hua Quan, etc etc etc.

    For your info, and for Sin The's info. "The people that inhabit Shaolin temple" as I am currently calling them aren't "really" Shaolin monks. They are Wushu athletes who are trying to reclaim some of their Chinese heritage. Wushu is Shaolin derived of course, but they just took the flashiest moves and put them together. Nothing wrong with that, but don't think that because Sin The went and got his picture taken with some Wushu athlete that that makes him Shaolin.

    True Shaolin exists today because Shaolin monks fled the temples at various times teaching their arts to lay people. These arts grew and changed and developed into the true Shaolin arts we know today these include CLF, Jow Ga, Hung Ga, Bak Mei, Dragon, Wing Chun, Tai Shing Pek Kwar, Hsing-Yi, Taiji Chuan, etc etc etc. Unfortunately for you, Shaolin-Do is not included in that list.

    Fu-Pow



    "Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu does not encourage its students to abuse or harm others with no reason. Nevertheless, in times when Kung Fu must be performed, Choy Lay Fut requires the student to change from a gentleman into a fierce and cold fighter."

    -Lee Koon Hung,
    CLF:The Dynamic Art of Fighting

  4. #214
    MonkeySlap Too Guest
    Just look at all the other pictures. I'm particularly fond of the 'mantis' guy.

    Oh, and now Sin The' is teaching Shantung Black Tiger too. Good thing there is a book on it!

    Fu Pow, there is no point in arguing. The lies will continue until the numbers who beleive them as the truth outnumber everyone else.

    I'd love to have been around to ask the 'monks' what they thought. They may do a lot of modern Wushu, but hey, Wushu isn't Karate. It still resembles the things it came out of.

    RADHNOTI: Are there are students of ie chang still teaching in Indonesia? Where are they? What do they practice? Do they recognize Sin The'?

    I'd like to have some friends over there investigate this, so your help would be appreciated!

    I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

  5. #215
    qy Guest

    SIn The Peer Group

    Yes Sin The has peers in Indonesia teaching. They don't always have nice things to say though. I have seen vids from the 1992 China Trip put on by the Soards (by the way this was Sin The's first trip to China ever). When they stopped in Indonesia his peers put on a demo. A few of the forms were from Sin The's curriculum, i.e. connecting fist, and another called Lin U Chuan. These forms- Buddha Fist and a "Tai Chi Fan Form", appeared in the US after the demo. By the way none of the folks were waring a Gi, Belt, Patches, or moved in a kenpo like manner. Their movements were fluid, well practiced, and skillful.
    Sorry as for these folks names, I don't have a clue. Sin The's brother also teaches, last I heard he is in the US.

  6. #216
    Wongsifu Guest
    can i join in too
    shaolin do really sux man xhaolin do is pathetic . man they are so fake they go so low as to but dog boy the cirvus dude as their grandmaster.
    Tehy are so pathetic their curriculum involves 400 forms with no application.
    OH wait a minute shaolin do is ahead of their time. modern wushu involves more forms with no application
    hmmmmmm :D :D :D

    I wongsifu shall strike fear into the hearts of trolls and mma guys who **** me off on these forums oh and in real life.

  7. #217
    The Willow Sword Guest
    :rolleyes:

    Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
    Luke?! Luke?! dont give into hate. That leads to the dark side.
    Obi Wan Kenobi,,star wars, empire strikes back.

  8. #218
    Radhnoti Guest
    Fu-Pow, I never claimed Chen village was where GM Sin learned Tai Chi...he says it was from GM Ie. I put the Chen village picture up for Crimson Phoenix, who mentioned that SD should go to Chen village. I pointed out that the monument was put up by students, so (I think obviously) I wasn't trying to mislead. Either you're misunderstanding my point or changing the subject to avoid my point Fu-Pow. You said that the thing you had against SD, primarily, was that we use the name shaolin. Next you say I'm trying to make you badmouth other systems. No, I'm pointing out that the word shaolin is MANY things to MANY people and not everyone that uses it does what you do. I'm surprised that you feel you have the right to define shaolin, and I'm sure that the schools I pointed out agree with me.
    As for the SD attitude about those occupying the Shaolin Temple, if you think they admire the style taught now then you've not been paying attention. TWS and the few SD magazine articles I've read have more than hinted at the disdain the higher SD belts have for the wushu practiced there now. (I have no problem with it...but I'm a nobody. heh) Our history is one of a monk fleeing the temple as well. And, finally, I'm sure that all the systems you've named are glad they're on your "real shaolin" list. Does that mean that when you take over the world, they can use the word shaolin in their title oh supreme ruler? :)
    MonkeySlap Too, I have no idea. But I'd love to find out a bit about it.
    That's interesting qy. GM Sin's brother has been referenced here several time before, if you search the threads there's even a website. The material taught at his school is almost identical in the lower belts...and they wear a gi and use japanese terms as SD often does...which had made me think that it was something learned from GM Ie. The main difference is that GM Sin's brother's group GREATLY dislikes GM Sin and the false statements they feel he's made. I'd love more info on GM Sin's "peer group" if you can dig it up, you say it was on a video you saw?
    Um...thanks for joining in Wongsifu. :cool:

  9. #219
    Crimson Phoenix Guest

    GGGRRRRRRR READ THE POSTS

    English isn't my mother language...I admire it for its precision...Rad, thanks for the picture, but WHERE in my post did I mention that Shaolin Do should go to Chen village? The term Shaolin-do didn't appear once in my whole post...I was just stating a way to know what "legitimate" (note the brackets, you get the idea) ressembles to...nothing more, nothing less...
    Thanks for the pic anyway, I have nothing against Shaolin-do, in fact guys I never heard of it before arriving on this forum, so I have no pre-conceived opinions on that...all I know is that many here (except SD practicionners) seem to be implicating that some aspects of it are fake...I'm just following the arguments trying to stay as neutral as I can, all that I have posted before can apply to every school on general, not SD in particular...some might feel they have a crusade to lead against SD, I don't...
    All that I can say is that I could go to Chen village or Shaolin, and get a nice pic with guys from there...if I pull out enough money, I could even get my name or some certificates in there...but that wouldn't make me an expert, just a liar...it has happened before, peeps paid enough to appear on one of Dong Hai Chuan's tombstones (he had several during along the years, and each time they'd renovate or change one, new names would pop out)...all of this to say that to me pictures prove nothing, or very little...

  10. #220
    Ground Dragon Guest
    I'm a student of one of Master Hiang's (Sin's brother) senior students as well as Master Hiang. I think most stuff has been covered in previous threads, so it's best to do searches for that info. If anyone has any questions about my teachers, what we do or the history I'd be glad to answer them via email to the best of my ability.
    I would be interested in hearing more about this group still practicing in Indonesia. I had heard the group had splintered over the years due to the head instructors passing away, but I'm sure some of the same material still exists over there. The school was there long enough there should be some high level practitioners around. I might do some checking on this myself

  11. #221
    Radhnoti Guest
    Grr? Crimson Phoenix, sorry if I misunderstood you...or if you misunderstood me. I didn't put the pictures up to "prove" anything, you mentioned the Chen village and I put up the link thinking you'd appreciate it. End of story.
    Ground Dragon, if you come up with anything would you mind sharing it with the forum? Thanks.

  12. #222
    KC Elbows Guest
    Rad, your timing for posting that pic of the stone in chen village, perhaps inadvertantly, put it in a context of validating sin the's legitemacy in chen style tai chi. You seem to be putting out evidence, then, when that evidence is inadequate, saying that you didn't intend for that evidence to be part of your argument, but instad saying you put it out for "those who are interested".

    You need to either:
    1) Choose evidence that is less refuttable,

    OR

    2) Admit when you have no info to work with.

    Painting techniques are worldwide, but only an idiot calls a Dali a Pollock.

    No offense to either Dali or Pollock, who I'm sure had no affiliation with SD, though having had the same time at the temple as Sin The, both painters undoubtedly had their own sects of shaolin.

    Oh ****. Did I flame?

  13. #223
    Radhnoti Guest
    I indicated that the monument was puchased by GM Sin's students in the post, I can't change that so feel free to double check me. If I'd meant the monument to be misconstrued as "proof" I don't imagine I'd have mentioned that.
    1. I didn't submit any "evidence", sometimes I throw things out on the board that interest me. Usually I do so on the main forum...I did research for about an hour the other day on dao's and posted the results. This time Crimson Phoenix's post reminded me of the pictures posted by the SD students on their visit to Chen village.
    Sorry for the confusion. If I ever present "evidence" I'll label it as such, but don't hold your breath as I've not run across anything other than opinion so far.
    2. I admit that I have no info beyond my own experiences (or what others say) to work with. But it seems that neither does anyone else. K C Elbows, did you MEAN to imply that the only way to learn a shaolin system would be to go to the Shaolin Temple? Many on this forum seem to disagree, but thanks for your input.

  14. #224
    Crimson Phoenix Guest
    Okie...thanks Rad...the pic is quite huge though...

  15. #225
    bratok304 Guest

    Challenge?

    So, when is this... CHALLENGE? I want to hear what happens... and btw, november approches....

    your "honorable" warrior.... :rolleyes:

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