Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[tattooedmonk]

TWS I wonder what would have happened had you won that "fight" that you lost. You would probably be one of the "SD'ers" that defend the art.
Because you did, or do not have the skill to fight, you want to blame those who practice SD and the art itself for your short comings. If one loses you have only oneself to blame. It is not the art but the individual. BTW Chinese Kun Tao from my research was brought to Indonesia byShaolin who had left china thus making it OLD SHAOLIN it was then taught with Indonesian arts. KC

it may not be the art but the individual to a certain degree, however,it is the teachers / masters reponsibility for the growth and developement of the students and the art , not every SD teacher /master lives up to that!..

[tattooedmonk]

If i had won that challenge match with Reemul it would not have changed ANYTHING, KC.

And i WAS one of the Sd'ers defending the art LONG BEFORE you decided to come on these boards.

I have always stated that the issue wasnt that i lost the match. My shortcomings was that i didnt decide to leave SD sooner insteading of wasting 8 years there and having to endure You and some of the other high and mighty's there.
You guys really ARE a cult. Nah you arent some manson family branch davidian type cult, but you are still an organization that bases its system on a mound of pure bullsh!T.

the Art is the foundation there is nothing wrong with it. what is wrong with it is the lack of philosophical teachings and some of the people in the organization.If the teachers/ masters had a philosophical backround and foundation in Taoism, Buddhism ,or Confucianism this would not happen as much as it does. Not everyone is meant to teach or to be incharge of a school . I have met many of these people over the years who were high and mighty and thought that everyones lives should be based on there own lives and philosophies when the had a ****ty life and no philosophy other than a mish mosh of bull ****!

[Golden Tiger]

it may not be the art but the individual to a certain degree, however,it is the teachers / masters reponsibility for the growth and developement of the students and the art , not every SD teacher /master lives up to that!..

Of course not every teacher/Master/style lives up to the expectations that a person might have. And generally if they don't, said person moves on to find one better suited to what they are looking for. Very similar to dating, very few end up staying with the first person they have a crush on.

The difference between them and TWS is that once they find out its not a good fit (no pun in relation to the dating part), they move on and don't dedicate they life to making the first crush out to be nothing than a common @#%$# (fill in apprioate term). TWS lost faith in his teacher/SD because they didn't back him up when he issued a challenge and got defeated (I think, been a while since I re-visited the TWS saga). To be perfectly honest, if I had a student on here, talking smack and doing what he did, I would have asked him to stop or leave. Thats not what I would want a student of mine doing.

[tattooedmonk]

You want to know about cults? Read the "Hearding the Moo" book obout Chung Moo Doe. SD is nothing like this. Someone or something not living up to your personal expectations (rushing to defend your honor) is life and part of being human (right or wrong).

If you had won the fight, then you wouldn't have expected your elders in the art to defend your honor and you wouldn't have felt betrayed, right? Maybe you would have left eventually for another reason, but I read your pre-fight posts on SD. If you had won, your posts would continue to defend SD.

Of course that's just my opinon. . . .

it may not be that extreme ..but it does have a cult following

if someone expects someone to come in help them or save them ,did you ever think that maybe that it was presented or offered to them and then when they needed it , no one was there to offer the help ??

if a guy wants to become afighter and someone has said they will train him to be fighter and in no way shows this person how to become a fighter then whos fault is it??

many shaolin instructors can teach but cannot fight. how can someone who does not know how to fight convey the idea of fighting to some one if they do not know how to fight??

[tattooedmonk]

Of course not every teacher/Master/style lives up to the expectations that a person might have. And generally if they don't, said person moves on to find one better suited to what they are looking for. Very similar to dating, very few end up staying with the first person they have a crush on.

The difference between them and TWS is that once they find out its not a good fit (no pun in relation to the dating part), they move on and don't dedicate they life to making the first crush out to be nothing than a common @#%$# (fill in apprioate term). TWS lost faith in his teacher/SD because they didn't back him up when he issued a challenge and got defeated (I think, been a while since I re-visited the TWS saga). To be perfectly honest, if I had a student on here, talking smack and doing what he did, I would have asked him to stop or leave. Thats not what I would want a student of mine doing.

..but does part of this responsibility not fall on the short comings of the teacher as well??

[Judge Pen]

What's a definition of a cult? My teachers are just that, teachers. They have no control over my personal life. They don't tell me how to think or what to say. They teach me martial arts. They don't dictate to me my friends. People throw this word around without any concept of how a real cult operates. A cult attempts to control more than just your behavior and actions in class. It invades your life. It's not to say that students take up the hero worship banner, but that's the same in any art. "My dad can beat up your dad." Your dad may or may not be a wimp. It's childish, but it happens all the time.

Can they fight? Yes, I believe so. I think that I do ok, and I wouldn't want to cross hands with any of them if it were anything but a learning environment.

I can't say that all schools are this way, but the ones that I have had any experience in.

[Judge Pen]

..but does part of this responsibility not fall on the short comings of the teacher as well??

Sure, to a degree, but good parents have bad kids and bad parents can have kids that grow up and do well in life. At some point you have to stop blaming your parents for your circumstances and take responsability for your own actions.

Please someone spank my inner-child.

[tattooedmonk]

[QUOTE=Golden Tiger]Of course not every teacher/Master/style lives up to the expectations that a person might have. [QUOTE]... the promises of certain services that are presented by the art/ teachers/ masters?? what if they do not live up to their promise and donot provide those certain services???

[Judge Pen]

[QUOTE=tattooedmonk][QUOTE=Golden Tiger]Of course not every teacher/Master/style lives up to the expectations that a person might have.

... the promises of certain services that are presented by the art/ teachers/ masters?? what if they do not live up to their promise and donot provide those certain services???

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him surf (or something like that).

[tattooedmonk]

Sure, to a degree, but good parents have bad kids and bad parents can have kids that grow up and do well in life. At some point you have to stop blaming your parents for your circumstances and take responsability for your own actions.

Please someone spank my inner-child.

but it is not always this cut and dry!!

[tattooedmonk]

[QUOTE=Judge Pen][QUOTE=tattooedmonk]

Of course not every teacher/Master/style lives up to the expectations that a person might have.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him surf (or something like that).

how does this apply here??? I do not see how it does!!!

[Golden Tiger]

Of course not every teacher/Master/style lives up to the expectations that a person might have.

...the promises of certain services that are presented by the art/ teachers/ masters?? what if they do not live up to their promise and donot provide those certain services???

You move on. It is a choice to join a school, not an obligation. It is a choice to stay, not an obligation. I am just saying that if it is not for you, don't spend the rest of your life bitter over it, just move on.

[BM2]

TWS stated it was only at the time for his leaving for the match that his instructor withdrew his support. Untill then he had it and that is why he felt betrayed.
Some schools charge what the market will bear in monthly costs. Several students found out that their teacher pads the testing fees
It is unfair to boldly paint SD or anything with a broad brush. For certain some schools put out hyperboyles and superlatives. However there are students who seek out structure and create a cult mindset on their own. As TTM stated, there are instructors out there that maybe shouldn't be. I wouldn't almost blindly follow them. I knew one that was a 4th that is no longer teaching SD. He was a nut. But what style doesn't have its nuts?

[Judge Pen]

Exactly! That was my point: Things are never cut and dry. To assume that a student cant' fight because the teacher is a bad teacher is just as presumptions as assuming that that a student that loses a fight had bad instruction. There are too many varialbes to consider to simply blame one or the other.

My horse analogy is simply stating that a good teacher can have a bad student.

[BM2]

Or a mediocre instructor can have a good student.