Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[tattooedmonk]

all this talk about mastering the art is rediculous...Shaolin is about mastering the self...

what is the definiton of what is kung fu and not kung fu??

Hey the xia...where are your videos of you doing some 'KUNGFU""??

[tattooedmonk]

It is unfortunate that SD purports, or maybe purported, itself to be a type of karate, for marketing purposes because at some time karate was the thing to do in the US. In the seventies, Kung Fu became the buzzword. It's interesting that SD didn't latch onto that. Ultimately the disappointment is that SD didn't just market itself and not latch onto what was big at the time. But perhaps the ultimate disapointment is that someone marketed himself as the grandmaster of all the shaolin styles, the animals, ba gau, tai ji, hsing i, the weapons, etc, when such is obviously impossible.

actually it has been called karate for many years..Master sin just calls it shaolin do..it is more than just martial arts...karate use to mean China hand...I wonder why.

Grandmaster is the title given as the holder of the system..it would be impossible for anyone to master 900+ forms or 50+ styles..

Master Sin said he has been practicing Chen Tai Ji Quan for over 35 years and still has yet to master it...

martialarts / shaolin is not about mastering forms, techniques, or systems it is about mastering the self

[tattooedmonk]

Ok, then maybe you can offer an explanation why it's performed like Karate.



So why does it look so similar to anyone with any MA training? You guys seem to see something that nobody outside your group seems to see. And why is it such an insult to you guys to be compared to Karate?



That's not hard to admit, I haven't seen it all and I don't know everything. The thing is I never made either of those claims so why did you bother to say that?

it is influenced by karate remember the lineage/history ..would it not stand to reason that to hide the art it would also have to look like karate and not"' kungfu"??

actually karate is a respectable art no one that really does the art cares what is called beyond Shaolin Do ..it is karate it is kung fu it is chuan fa it is also none of these

[tattooedmonk]

What Is Your Definiton Of What Shaolin Is And Is Not ??
What Is Your Definition Of What Kung Fu Is Or Is Not??
What Is Your Definition Of What Is Right And What Is Wrong??
Why Is It ABOUT SD THAT Brings Out The B*tch In All Other Martial Artist??
Why Does Anyone Out Side Of Sd Care What We Do??
Whyis It That You All Whine So Much About Total Bullsh**?

For All You Doubters...stfu!!

[lunghushan]

Uhhhh....then why do you continue to?

Uhhhh...thats the second time you have said that. And yet.. You lack mental discipline grasshopper.

I think we should be training with you. You seem to have studied it all.

Sorry Lung, I am just in a playful mood this morning and you seem to provide a wealth of quotes.

I didn't say I studied at all those places. I have been to them. I didn't study at all of them.

[lunghushan]

That's why it's Shaolin Do...the way of the Shaolin. We have a wealth of real Chinese forms and systems.....it's up to each student where we head with it and some of us do pretty well. We have nothing to hide come see us. It's nice to be able to trace the lineage of our forms....it makes them more real. Peace

Okay, well as long as you don't expect people to believe the story of your GM being a master of 50+ martial arts and 900 forms, and a master of Shaolin, I don't have a problem with your schools.

Your schools obviously teach a bunch of classical martial arts forms, but please just don't expect anybody to buy the story because it makes no sense.

[ricardocameron]

it is influenced by karate remember the lineage/history ..would it not stand to reason that to hide the art it would also have to look like karate and not"' kungfu"??

actually karate is a respectable art no one that really does the art cares what is called beyond Shaolin Do ..it is karate it is kung fu it is chuan fa it is also none of these

"KARA"(China) + " TE"(Hand)= What? "Kara" was changed by Funakoshi to mean "Empty" Same Japanese pronunciation, different written character...Comprende?
Then the Japanese put their twisted little minds to the CMA..

Same Bat art, different Bat name!

[The Willow Sword]

What Is Your Definiton Of What Shaolin Is And Is Not ??

Shaolin IS the TCMA taught and practiced at the Shaolin temple(either several hundred years ago or today whether you call it wushu or whatever classification i give creedence to what comes from the Temple. What Shaolin is NOT is SD. Plain and simple.

What Is Your Definition Of What Kung Fu Is Or Is Not?? i think the kfm definition is right on.

In general, Kung Fu is a label used to describe any Martial Art that comes from China. It is the generic name for literally hundreds of individual Chinese fighting arts, both "internal" and "external," ancient and of relatively recent invention.

what kung fu is NOT is SD. Plain and simple.

What Is Your Definition Of What Is Right And What Is Wrong??

What is right is when people represent themselves honestly without having to spout and tout alot of BS and make outlandish claims.
What is wrong is when you misrepresent who you are and what you profess to teach and WHERE you get your material from.

Why Is It ABOUT SD THAT Brings Out The B*tch In All Other Martial Artist??

What is it about Logic ,reason, and reality that brings out the b!tch in the SD'ers and the constant need to justify themselves to everyone around them? hmmmm?

Why Does Anyone Out Side Of Sd Care What We Do??

Because alot of us who actually TRAIN in a TCMA and have a legitamate background and lineage are sick and Fukin tired of you guys constantly riding the coattail of the TCMA realm and to be quite frank B@STARDIZING TCMA and calling it the true shaolin way or art. you get no respect from the TCMA community as a whole. Think about that for a moment. you spend most of your time trying to justify what you do and how you do it and its no wonder you get laughed at by every other TCMA out there and its no wonder when you go to china and get all this grand treatment(because you are tourists with money) and then when you leave they roll their eyes and continue on with their daily routines.

Whyis It That You All Whine So Much About Total Bullsh**?

Why is it that all you Sd'ers whine to US about YOUR BS? Here on this forum?

[Baqualin]

Wow, this gentleman is very interesting. I'm surprised you haven't researched him GT. We have a few forms that are very close to his in Hsing-I and Bagua.

FYI...our Classical Baqua The First Baqua form taught in SD can be traced back to Chiang Jung-Ch'iao a student of Chang Chao-Tung, who was a direct student of Tung Hai-Ch'uan

It's a common form in the Baqua world not far removed from Tung Hai-Ch'uan as you see...they just spelled his name Jiang instead of Chiang. The gentleman doing it on the video is not Chiang...he's dead.

You can get a video of this form from Dr. Jerry Allen Johnson a Baqua Master in Monteray Calif.
he also teaches it with applications.

From what I've researched we have a little more to go along with it in the 64 rules, fighting technique's and circle training (circle mixing)

[Baqualin]

What Is Your Definiton Of What Shaolin Is And Is Not ??

Shaolin IS the TCMA taught and practiced at the Shaolin temple(either several hundred years ago or today whether you call it wushu or whatever classification i give creedence to what comes from the Temple. What Shaolin is NOT is SD. Plain and simple.

What Is Your Definition Of What Kung Fu Is Or Is Not?? i think the kfm definition is right on.

In general, Kung Fu is a label used to describe any Martial Art that comes from China. It is the generic name for literally hundreds of individual Chinese fighting arts, both "internal" and "external," ancient and of relatively recent invention.

what kung fu is NOT is SD. Plain and simple.

What Is Your Definition Of What Is Right And What Is Wrong??

What is right is when people represent themselves honestly without having to spout and tout alot of BS and make outlandish claims.
What is wrong is when you misrepresent who you are and what you profess to teach and WHERE you get your material from.

Why Is It ABOUT SD THAT Brings Out The B*tch In All Other Martial Artist??

What is it about Logic ,reason, and reality that brings out the b!tch in the SD'ers and the constant need to justify themselves to everyone around them? hmmmm?

Why Does Anyone Out Side Of Sd Care What We Do??

Because alot of us who actually TRAIN in a TCMA and have a legitamate background and lineage are sick and Fukin tired of you guys constantly riding the coattail of the TCMA realm and to be quite frank B@STARDIZING TCMA and calling it the true shaolin way or art. you get no respect from the TCMA community as a whole. Think about that for a moment. you spend most of your time trying to justify what you do and how you do it and its no wonder you get laughed at by every other TCMA out there and its no wonder when you go to china and get all this grand treatment(because you are tourists with money) and then when you leave they roll their eyes and continue on with their daily routines.

Whyis It That You All Whine So Much About Total Bullsh**?

Why is it that all you Sd'ers whine to US about YOUR BS? Here on this forum?

I wondered were you've been

[Golden Tiger]

Because alot of us who actually TRAIN in a TCMA and have a legitamate background and lineage are sick and Fukin tired of you guys constantly riding the coattail of the TCMA realm

Speaking of coat tails, you do know that you have made a name for yourself on the SD coat tails don't you WS? Mention your name in other threads, what do you get? "Oh, he is the one from SD that got his a$$ handed to him cause his mouth wrote checks his butt couldn't cash" or "yeah, he is the crazy guy that went from loving it to hating it, sorta like a grade school crush".

So lil one, you owe SD everything for making you famous. Now go drink some more Kool aide and restart Final Fantasy. what a tool

[Golden Tiger]

Wow, this gentleman is very interesting. I'm surprised you haven't researched him GT. We have a few forms that are very close to his in Hsing-I and Bagua.

Yeah, I don't get out much.

[godzillakungfu]

Yeah, I don't get out much.

Thank you for understanding what I meant.

BQ stop.

FYI nothing. I have already stated I did SD West. I know the history, I know the debates, I know the misspellings, I know the politics. Not so much on the East but, much on the west.



Yes, I have seen the JRJ videos they are a source of debate in some circles regarding SD(again this is coming from the West).

If you read GT's post you would understand my post.

Originally Posted by Golden Tiger View Post
Very interesting. This is the first time I have seen the Classical form done by someone outside of SD. As was stated already, we do the form a tad different (same circle on both sides,level 1 training anyway, uniform number of steps between each circle, more defined movements) but other than that, I see very little difference.

Interesting indeed.

Our postures are similar to JRJ but it is rare to watch someone do SD stepping patterns. JRJ doesn't do the circle walking while doing the postures like SD. That is what I was responding to in GT's post.


It is interesting to find something, recently produced, outside of American influence, that resembles SD forms and patterns.

[tattooedmonk]

What Is Your Definiton Of What Shaolin Is And Is Not ??

Shaolin IS the TCMA taught and practiced at the Shaolin temple(either several hundred years ago or today whether you call it wushu or whatever classification i give creedence to what comes from the Temple. What Shaolin is NOT is SD. Plain and simple.

What Is Your Definition Of What Kung Fu Is Or Is Not?? i think the kfm definition is right on.

In general, Kung Fu is a label used to describe any Martial Art that comes from China. It is the generic name for literally hundreds of individual Chinese fighting arts, both "internal" and "external," ancient and of relatively recent invention.

what kung fu is NOT is SD. Plain and simple.

What Is Your Definition Of What Is Right And What Is Wrong??

What is right is when people represent themselves honestly without having to spout and tout alot of BS and make outlandish claims.
What is wrong is when you misrepresent who you are and what you profess to teach and WHERE you get your material from.

Why Is It ABOUT SD THAT Brings Out The B*tch In All Other Martial Artist??

What is it about Logic ,reason, and reality that brings out the b!tch in the SD'ers and the constant need to justify themselves to everyone around them? hmmmm?

Why Does Anyone Out Side Of Sd Care What We Do??

Because alot of us who actually TRAIN in a TCMA and have a legitamate background and lineage are sick and Fukin tired of you guys constantly riding the coattail of the TCMA realm and to be quite frank B@STARDIZING TCMA and calling it the true shaolin way or art. you get no respect from the TCMA community as a whole. Think about that for a moment. you spend most of your time trying to justify what you do and how you do it and its no wonder you get laughed at by every other TCMA out there and its no wonder when you go to china and get all this grand treatment(because you are tourists with money) and then when you leave they roll their eyes and continue on with their daily routines.

Whyis It That You All Whine So Much About Total Bullsh**?

Why is it that all you Sd'ers whine to US about YOUR BS? Here on this forum?

#1) the forms & art come from the shaolin temples directly or indirectly.... so how can it not be shaolin if this is what your definiton of shaolin is??...by the way your definition is inaccurate.

#2) Shaolin Do is not kungfu or karate it is both and it is neither...some call it karate some call it kung fu..most just call it a Shaolin Do!!

..once again you have given a generic definiton that anyone who reads any book about chinese martial arts could come up with...for someone with so much experience and so many opinions and criticisms I would expect more...inaccurate again. think outside the box...

#3) right and wrong are a matter of perception ..truth is absolute... and how do you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that what is claimed by Sd is not accurate and true..or right???

#4)answering a question with a question..just what I expect from a B*TCH!!

#5)LMAO..dude whatever....I doubt you know what real chinese martial arts is....unless it hit you in the face!! which can be arranged!!

#6)once again see#4......GT is right you are tool!!

[Golden Tiger]

BQ stop.

FYI nothing.

I can't really speak for him but I don't think that his FYI and such was directed at you GKFu, but more a reply of what you said directed to the thread. He is a decent fellow or so I hear.


Hey BM2!!! coming to the "gathering" and seminar this weekend?