Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Flying-Monkey]

because anyone that is really doing the arts does not care about the outward appearences or the lineage ...all that matters is whether it works or not!!!ShaolinDo works and this is what makes it real!!!!

Monk,

"Real what?" is my question. Before you answer, I don't want to get into a cyclic debate about the bearded monk who mastered all of the techniques and styles. Because I cannot prove to you it is false and you cannot prove to me it is true. I have never been to the temple. I cannot read Chinese to the point to read the old scrolls. The internet is filled with good info and bad info.

Even the strongest debater against SD will not and cannot argue its ability in the ring. However, is SD shaolin in the sense that most (credible) people think shaolin is?

[Flying-Monkey]

I showed the forms to a sifu of another style, I never said I went into the lineage or Soo Kong story I had on a tee shirt and karate pants and w/o shoes. So as not to Bias the teacher. He said they were the real deal but a little different.
Also I have a friend in the Wah Lum style who iI have spoken with as well and W/o with in the past. Still no adverse reactions. KC

I don't mean to seem nit-picky, but he is your friend. why would he tell his friend who worked hard and learned how to fight that what he does is not real?

[Flying-Monkey]

What does this breathing do for the MAist?

[Flying-Monkey]

I have heard of him. Unfortunately, I feel that he was just a legend. There really isn't any proof he was real. It is not only this bearded monk, but other heros in Chinese history. I think that most of them were real people, but they were hyped up.

[kungfujunky]

the breathing is a way of channeling the chi...without going to in depth.

there is a lot more to the whole set of postures and breathing techniques than that simple answer but that is it in a nut shell...gt or bq could probably explain it better

there have been a number of people who say they have heard of su kong outside of sd talks. does that not lead some credibility to at least the fact that he was a real person?

i do know that gmt has some documents that would settle this debate but sadly he doesnt feel the need to worry about people who arent his students.

i often wonder if he would grant an extensive interview to answer a lot of these questions....

[Flying-Monkey]

I heard of a kind of breathing like that, but it is not shaolin (like someone mentioned before). I heard it was more for longevity than for fighting.

I heard of a very hairy monk who was very skilled, but I may be confusing it with the journey to the West. It was a long time ago.

Su Kong was a kung fu genius (according to SD lore). He did the impossible, so why isn't he more famous like Wong fei Hung, and the others.

Jesus is very famous. However, the only proof of him is in the bible. A book that I feel cannot be relied upon. Go to Google video and do search on Penn and Teller's Bullsh!t show. They did a show about the bible. Yes, I know you can't rely on two magical comedians, but they make a lot of good points.

[Golden Tiger]

If Su Kong were real, why is it that he is only in the Shaolin Do lineage chart and not a major figure in Chinese folklore?

This photo was debated a few thousand posts ago it seems, but from what i remember, it is in a building off to the side of the main temple. It is part of a famous photo essay done circa 1928. Does it look like anyone we know?

[kungfujunky]

cool link gt thanks...i hadnt seen that one

the xia....since su kong had to abruptly leave the temple due to fire and persecution isnt it also possible there was no that wanted to talk about the now outlawed shaolin martial artists?

the other legend you continue to speak of is so widely used because so many use it. can these other schools prove their lineage beyond a reasonable doubt? and we also have the five elders in our history...but thats not exactly where our teachings came from.

i ask again...who here can claim to know real cma when there is no video referance of actual shaolin performing it from 200 years ago? cma..specifically shaolin is an oral tradition.

there is no way any lineage, any school, any sifu can claim to do real cma when all the martial arts we have today are passed down from master to master....each master adds their own flavor. so isnt it possible then that our real cma looks different than yours? isnt it possible that gm ie and gm t have added their own flavors to sd to preserve and protect it during turbulent times?

to be so hard lined about something as flimsy as "real cma" is really close minded in my opinion.

since not one of us can claim to know what "real cma" looks like. all we can know is what our teachers have shown us. and their style could be tremendously different from what "real cma" is supposed to be.

and again i think the greatest aid to sd is that clip from the fight science show. a celebrated wu shu champion and real cma shaolin kung fu practicioner does our material. not just a punch or kick either. he does nearly half of a form. a form that no one claims is real kung fu. yet there it is! on tv! performed by a champion no less.

[Flying-Monkey]

This photo was debated a few thousand posts ago it seems, but from what i remember, it is in a building off to the side of the main temple. It is part of a famous photo essay done circa 1928. Does it look like anyone we know?

Is it Sun Wu kung?

[Judge Pen]

I heard of a kind of breathing like that, but it is not shaolin (like someone mentioned before). I heard it was more for longevity than for fighting.

It is also used to provide a boost of energy, but I'm not the most knowledgable person in all things chi. It is interesting to notice the effects of practicing this type of breath. It is introduced during the bird training on Hua tuo's five animal frolics--a very old style of chi gong that developed outside of the temple. SD teaches and practices this style of Chi gong and it is taught at the same time that we are taught SD's Hsing-Ie.

I heard of a very hairy monk who was very skilled, but I may be confusing it with the journey to the West. It was a long time ago.

Su Kong was a kung fu genius (according to SD lore). He did the impossible, so why isn't he more famous like Wong fei Hung, and the others.

Jesus is very famous. However, the only proof of him is in the bible. A book that I feel cannot be relied upon. Go to Google video and do search on Penn and Teller's Bullsh!t show. They did a show about the bible. Yes, I know you can't rely on two magical comedians, but they make a lot of good points.

As far as the story anaolgies, you know that I agree with you--I think he was a fable first told in Indonesia. Certain branches of CLF have an individual in thier lineage known as the "green grass monk" that isn't found in other lineages of martial arts, but it doesn't dilute the origins of their forms as being Chinese.

[BentMonk]

This might look familiar to my SD buds as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGIHXVeL24o&NR

[Flying-Monkey]

As far as the story anaolgies, you know that I agree with you--I think he was a fable first told in Indonesia. Certain branches of CLF have an individual in thier lineage known as the "green grass monk" that isn't found in other lineages of martial arts, but it doesn't dilute the origins of their forms as being Chinese.

The validity of a person or character is not the focus of my question. I was side tracked a bit. Plus, the branch of CLF's forms and history are not in question.

[Baqualin]

The validity of a person or character is not the focus of my question. I was side tracked a bit. Plus, the branch of CLF's forms and history are not in question.

That happens alot on here.....please restate your main question.....I would like to respond.

[The Willow Sword]

THAT PHOTO posted by GT was already answered by Gene ching. and i believe he said that was a buddhist Deityas it is very common for buddhist temples and taoist temples to carve images of the celestial deities and gods. its NOT Li Baoshu or as you guys call him (su kong). i thought you guys had better sense than that.


you know with this past tourney that you guys went to and such i wonder why none of you have ever asked Sin The' about all this. i seem to remember at somepoint that a few of you were going to? Did you get cold feet or something? Did you forget? i hardly think so since those of you who post here on a regular basis and who go to these seminars and tourneys. you know what i think, i think you guys are AFRAID to ask these questions for FEAR of some reprisal or bill leonard getting up in your face or any of the other seniors there.

If i could ask Sin The about it i would, but i understand the fear that you guys have by not bringing it up.

TWS

[Flaca]

you know with this past tourney that you guys went to and such i wonder why none of you have ever asked Sin The' about all this. i seem to remember at somepoint that a few of you were going to? Did you get cold feet or something? Did you forget? i hardly think so since those of you who post here on a regular basis and who go to these seminars and tourneys. you know what i think, i think you guys are AFRAID to ask these questions for FEAR of some reprisal or bill leonard getting up in your face or any of the other seniors there.

If i could ask Sin The about it i would, but i understand the fear that you guys have by not bringing it up.

TWS

You mean, should we ask GM Sin if he's a liar, if the lineage he speaks of is not true? Fear isn't in it, it would be completely disrespectful to do so.
Not only that, but none of us truly cares about the lineage. What matters to us is that we've improved our lives, our health and our safety from his training. He's made us all better people, and we thank him for it and show him the respect he's earned.