Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Judge Pen]

You mean www.shao-lin.com?

I agree there are some good videos there (like the ones you mentioned). There's also a few BAD ones including the people doing hua and chen tai chi. Sorry if that offends anyone and I'm certainly not saying that I do any of them better.

Here's a more direct link: http://www.shao-lin.com/Category.cfm?CategoryID=28

Personally, the chainwhip and the dao and chainwhip forms are my favorites.

[Yao Sing]

If Shaolin Do is legitimate Shaolin Kung Fu then how can you point to another Shaolin practitioner and say he's doing OUR forms?

Wouldn't he just be doing a Shaolin form that's also in your branch of Shaolin Kung Fu?

I get the impression you're claiming he swiped a couple of your sets.

[Judge Pen]

If Shaolin Do is legitimate Shaolin Kung Fu then how can you point to another Shaolin practitioner and say he's doing OUR forms?

Wouldn't he just be doing a Shaolin form that's also in your branch of Shaolin Kung Fu?

I get the impression you're claiming he swiped a couple of your sets.

There are sets that do not seem to be practiced anywhere else outside of SD. I thought these two sets were some of them. Apparently I was wrong. I don't know if the sets were swiped or taught in another lineage outside of SD. I know who his first teacher was and what he used to teach, but I'm not making any acuasations. My point was that someone else is doing a set that is clearly part of SD's curriculim (and not widely known outside of SD) and it appears to be accepted as kung fu (the practitioner's form issues aside). Still lost?

[kungfujunky]

we say that to prove the point that is so richly debated here.

since you all claim we do not do shaolin kung fu when someone else is doing it we say they are doing what we do to prove the point that we are doing shaolin kung fu

also we get the impression no matter what proof we offer you will continue to deny it

so whats the point anymore?

[Judge Pen]

we say that to prove the point that is so richly debated here.

since you all claim we do not do shaolin kung fu when someone else is doing it we say they are doing what we do to prove the point that we are doing shaolin kung fu

also we get the impression no matter what proof we offer you will continue to deny it

so whats the point anymore?

Heck, "shaolin" is such a generic term. I'd agree with the above, but just take the word shaolin out of it.

"since you all claim we do not do kung fu when someone else is doing it we say they are doing what we do to prove the point that we are doing kung fu"

[Baqualin]

This has nothing to do with this thread but in case you guys didn't see these vid's take a look.....these are of a 60 yr. old Master in the Monkey King's system that Flying Monkey is studying....JP & KFJ pay attention to his back foot placement in the low stances & landings....no roll over to the arch side , foot is always flat on the ground and at the proper angle ....his biomechanics are awesome....KFJ this is a great example for you to take note of as someone who wants to teach. His form reminds me of Master Ben's in the Lex. school (except for the age difference )
Here is Master Chow Keung... 2 of the sets were done slow, I am guessing for one of his students...

Gow jow kwun, 9 continents staff...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7hf1rqnsi4

Double Handed Broadsword:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdfiZe6xRr0

Lost Monkey Form:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz7QLd2Qh34

[Baqualin]

we say that to prove the point that is so richly debated here.

since you all claim we do not do shaolin kung fu when someone else is doing it we say they are doing what we do to prove the point that we are doing shaolin kung fu

also we get the impression no matter what proof we offer you will continue to deny it

so whats the point anymore?

The point is our forms are real and it's up to each of us in SD that are serious MA to take what we enjoy and try to master it the best we can...we're dealing with a handful of people here on these forums who just like us will believe what they believe no matter what, I've met some really knowledgeable people on here like flying monkey, Yao sing, citong sifu, MK, & others that have my respect (even they can be a pain in the butt). With that said I could care less what they think of SD....33 years has proven more than enough for me. I have eyes that see and have been watching for 40 yrs....heck I was doing Baqua before most MA even knew what it was.....I will gladly post a video of me doing this if someone will help me...KC? Not to prove a point, but to receive constructive criticism...to improve!

So the point really is it's all a matter of opinion and we all know what that means

By the way FLM my favorite soft drink is Pepsi I like the flavor!!!

[The Xia]

Thanks man. No name yet.

Xia, I understand what you are saying, but it still seems that you are complaining of the performance and not the form. I'm asking about the form not the incorrect way someone may be doing stances. I can show you the same form, but its going to have all the things that I do wrong go along with it (my stances are the best and my flexibility is horrible so I compensate in incorrect ways sometimes to do a particular form). The performance isn't the point--its the structure of the set that I'm asking about.....were the techniques cma, ima, jma or other?

First off, let me start out by saying that I'm only judging the bit of the form I watched from Alex Huynh, not any of the other stuff shown on that clip. From what I see, is it a TCMA form? I'd say it was (from what little I saw). Was it performed in a traditional manner? Nope. It screamed contemporary Wushu to me. His stance was one of the biggest giveaways. Doing what he did doesn't generate power and doesn't provide a stable stance. That's why you will not see it from a skilled traditionalist. Contemporary Wushu is all about aesthetics. A skilled contemporary Wushu player has a lot of speed, flexibility, and agility. They are tremendous athletes. However, it is not martial arts. They have a complete lack of power, applications are unheard of, etc. There is nothing martial about it. Contemporary Wushu takes martial forms and strips it of everything martial while dazzling it up. That is what I saw in the brief clip of Alex Huynh's performance. It may be a traditional form, but it didn't look like it was done traditional to me. It looked like contemporary Wushu. I didn't see power, the stance work was off, etc.

[Flying-Monkey]

I watched the video from the SD site. I must say, without a doubt, that .....

[Flying-Monkey]

it is not kung fu.

[kungfujunky]

what a comprehensive and well thought out answer

[Flying-Monkey]

..you posting a video of you doing a form or two, seeing as you are such an expert on what is and is not shaolin and / or kung fu and /or TCMA ,and let us all decide as to whether it is or is not shaolin or kung fu or TCMA....then one of us will do the same ...only seems fair....you seem to be leading the charge here and quite frankly you have proven nothing other than you are a keyboard martial artist who lives vicariously through others and has no skills of their own to speak of other than talking SH*T!!! You are overly critical of others , biased, lack any depth or openmindedness and continue to talk in circles about the same SH*T over and over ....I think you should put up or shut up !!!!

What is your obsession with The Xia posting forms? I basically agree with everything he states. However, you do not badger me to post forms of myself. It does not matter if he is a master or just someone who studies CMA has a hobby and does not practice. Everything he is writing is true.

His questions go unanswered. His opinions are ignored. Which I feel is unfortunate for the people who do not listen.

[Flying-Monkey]

what a comprehensive and well thought out answer

you are welcome.

[BentMonk]

First off, let me start out by saying that I'm only judging the bit of the form I watched from Alex Huynh, not any of the other stuff shown on that clip. From what I see, is it a TCMA form? I'd say it was. Was it performed in a traditional manner? Nope. It screamed contemporary Wushu to me. His stance was one of the biggest giveaways. Doing what he did doesn't generate power and doesn't provide a stable stance. That's why you will not see it from a skilled traditionalist. Contemporary Wushu is all about aesthetics. A skilled contemporary Wushu player has a lot of speed, flexibility, and agility. They are tremendous athletes. However, it is not martial arts. They have a complete lack of power, applications are unheard of, etc. There is nothing martial about it. Contemporary Wushu takes martial forms and strips it of everything martial while dazzling it up. That is what I saw in the brief clip of Alex Huynh's performance. It may be a traditional form, but it didn't look like it was done traditional to me. It looked like contemporary Wushu. I didn't see power, the stance work was off, etc.

I am curious. On what knowledge and experience do you base your criticisms? I'm not trying to be antagonistic. Your writing style indicates that you consider yourself to be some what of an authority on TCMA. I would like to know your qualifications.

I have had a life long interest in MA, TCMA in particular. I am very well read on the subject. I have studied formally for 12 years. I consider my credentials to be meager at best. That is why you will not find me being overly critical of anyone. I am still a beginner. IMO anyone with less than 10 years experience doing most things is not qualified to offer more than an educated opinion.

Again, I am not trying to be disrespectful. I just feel that if someone is going to speak with authority on a subject, they should be able to readily validate that authority.

[BentMonk]

it is not kung fu.

Please elaborate.