Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Baqualin]

Hello all, first time poster here. I have read this thread with interest as of late. I will start out by stating that I take Shaolin-Do at this time. What I find intersting in this thread is the whole "is it TCMA"? And many have issues about the lineage. When I was deciding about which school to attend, I went to several in my area to check them out. I decided on SD for a variety of reasons, the instructor, the atmosphere, and the dedication everyone there had to the art. I did not join because I wanted a history lesson, and quite frankly I could care less. What matters to me most is the results. In my humble opinion, there is no TCMA anymore. I believe this because when many of the traditional instructors left China and came to Europe and the U.S., the art they taught changed, due to the fact they were teaching it to Europeans who had a different outlook on life. Does that mean that the MA that Europeans do is invalid because they do it differently then those from the East? Absolutely not. It just means that the style has evolved.
The lineage of SD is always questioned. Do I believe in it? Not really. Does that make me not a good student? I don't believe so. There are many students that take their training seriously, and I believe are equal to any other practioner of an art. But like any MA, it is all what you put into it.
It seems to me that since many doubt the lineage of SD, and if it is TCMA or not, that they want to write it off as not being good. Just because a style is "traditional" will not give you the ability to make someone's head explode, or turn their bones to jelly. It is a method, like anything else. I am sure that Bruce Lee went through the same issue when he was forming JKD.
I have always believed in giving someone respect if they are a martial artist, no matter what style they have choosen. In my eyes, they have made a choice to work hard at something that most people do not have the discipline to pursue, to challenge themselves to push the boundries of what they think they can do. To call into question the practice of SD because there are those who question it's lineage, or the few video's presentations that have been posted on the forum can be taken as insulting to those that have choosen it as their art and work hard to be the best they can be. I am not saying that we don't have bad practioners, any style does, but we have many good ones as well. We should not be judged on the small amount of students or masters shown on the net, but on the quality of all the students as a whole.

Welcome to the Machine

[Flying-Monkey]

I am retiring from this thread. I spoke with my Sifu. He said "If they are not saying what they do is TSPK, then don't worry about them."

I don't care one way or the other at this point.

[Radhnoti]

To me, kuntao, kung-fu, karate, wushu, tae kwon do, etc. are all just...popular boxes to fit something into. It's sort of meaningless unless you know something about the GENERAL points associated with each, and no style always fits perfectly into one box.
Karate, most would say is linear and focused on aggressive external technique.
Kung-fu often works with less direct and flowing motions.
Wushu (in the U.S.) typically refers to kungfu based performance art. Beautiful to watch and highly athletic.
Kuntao is Chinese kungfu based but with Indonesian sensibilities, usually a focus on sparring and functionality. Often in kuntao more is better...more forms, more technique, etc...and they don't care to add things that work from other sources.

These are all just categories...little boxes we put things into to help us with our personal understanding of what things ARE without direct experience. It makes sense, to me, to classify shaolin-do as kuntao because of it's many similarities to OTHER kuntao schools. If kung-fu stylists come to understand that many of the attitudes and claims made by shaolin-do are echoed and repeated in other styles from the Indo-Chinese area...maybe that's the bridge to understanding. Shaolin-do is unique, but not so unique as to be outside the "box" of kuntao, in my opinion.

[Baqualin]

I am retiring from this thread. I spoke with my Sifu. He said "If they are not saying what they do is TSPK, then don't worry about them."

I don't care one way or the other at this point.

Your Sifu is correct...we only do SD and like any organization our size, there will be alot of bad Kung Fu shown along with the good...it all depends on the person...I had eventually hoped to show you some of our better people perform...I really appreciated the TSPK videos posted on the other thread by some of your friends.....we do know what real kung fu is when we see it just like you...that should tell you something. I also don't think we're worth losing any sleep over....we don't give flack...we only catch it

I for one hate to see you leave....you bring alot of knowledge to the table and I really enjoy your debates.....stop by once in awhile and say Hi

[KungFu Student]

That made me laugh.

Great post. Any school would be proud to have a student with an outlook like you in their midst.

Thank you for your kind words, You humble me. I do not believe that traditional styles are any less effective, far from it. But I think that many people believe just because a certain style is supposedly "traditional" that it is inherently better. I personally do not believe this. Which style is better lies mainly on the skill of the people squaring off against each other. This is my opinion of course, your mileage may vary.

[BentMonk]

Kung Fu Student - Awesome post. Welcome to the thread. With your attitude I am sure you will become an excellent martial artist.

[Green Cloud]

Have any of you guys ever heard of Pankration ? KC

Panckration is an ancient Greek MA system historicaly it was credited with the development of Greco Roman wrestling.

[greencloudtj]

does that anchent greek style consist of doggy style...i mean it is greek right

[The Willow Sword]

Quoted By Kungfu Student

The lineage of SD is always questioned. Do I believe in it? Not really.

Then Why be a part of something that misrepresents themselves and allegedly fabricates its "authenticity"? why would anyone want to be a part of that?

See that is the problem. no-one cares anymore about keeping the history alive and clean and legitamate. No-one cares about integrity and honor anymore.

TWS

[KungFu Student]

Because I do not need history to make myself a better martial artist. That just takes hard work.

[Green Cloud]

does that anchent greek style consist of doggy style...i mean it is greek right

Actualy TJ yes youre right the style resembled Brazilian Jiu Jit su,, gay but effective and after the Greek empire it was perfected by the Romans. You know your Italian ancestors

[The Xia]

http://historical-pankration.com/
According to this website, pankration was added to the 33rd Olympiad in 648 BC. It states that it was practiced by the Greeks then the Romans. It would make sense being that the Romans borrowed much from the Greeks. However, there is still the mystery of who the Romans are. Some theorize the Trojans were the ancestors to the Romans. Notable pre-Roman civilization in Italy is Greek civilization. Southern Italy was known as Magna Graecia. There also existed the Etruscan civilization centered in Tuscany, which created the forerunner of the gladiatorial games.

[Green Cloud]

That's a great web site Xia, It seems that Pankration was a complete MA systems.

I'm astounded by how much evidence that is unearthed to support the claims about one of the oldest fighting styles to date.

I feel this is a good topic since the history of Pankrates can be supported from the pictures found from these artifacts.

In relation to SD the only evidence they have to support their claims is Mythology. At least the Greeks were able to differentiate Mythology from History and as ancient as this civilization is they have a ton of evidence to support all their historical data.

[tattooedmonk]

Quoted By Kungfu Student



Then Why be a part of something that misrepresents themselves and allegedly fabricates its "authenticity"? why would anyone want to be a part of that?

See that is the problem. no-one cares anymore about keeping the history alive and clean and legitamate. No-one cares about integrity and honor anymore.

TWS

quit your crying...do you want some cheese for that whine??

[godzillakungfu]

Then Why be a part of something that misrepresents themselves and allegedly fabricates its "authenticity"? why would anyone want to be a part of that?

You know TWS, if you kept your emotions out, you make valid points. Then you say the above and lose credibility. Up until your falling out you felt exactly like KFS. Yes, I lurked for a long time. A very long time and I know what happened with your drama.

Of course only by what was written.