Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[MasterKiller]

So did KC ever get that translation of Sin's certificate yet?

[BentMonk]

The more I think about it, the more likely it seems that SD's history may be true, despite what so many think. If someone were going to use Shaolin kung fu as a money making enterprise, but didn't want to spend decades becoming a real Shaolin master, they could do it much easier than the way people seem to believe GM Sin did. Google, photo-shop, and some creative writing that corresponds with established dates and events in accepted TCMA lore, and they would have enough validity to satisfy 90% of the people on this thread, myself included. We may be well read and well practiced, but there is not one true TCMA expert on this thread. All we are doing here is throwing the same conflicting opinions back and forth. It's interesting diversion that will be around as long as someone from both sides keeps typing. GM Sin is passing on the history and material of Shaolin Do as it was passed to him. When he began teaching in America 40 years ago, the history of TCMA was not as readily available or as sought after as it is today. Even if GM Sin had intended to lie from day one, someone of his obvious intelligence could have constructed something more believable than SD's history. GM Sin has no need to lie. Shaolin Do is a Chinese martial art with roots in the Fukien temple that evolved and traveled through Indonesia and America to become what it is today. I have gotten nothing but positive things from my Shaolin Do training. Many others have as well.

[KungFu Student]

You know TWS, if you kept your emotions out, you make valid points. Then you say the above and lose credibility. Up until your falling out you felt exactly like KFS. Yes, I lurked for a long time. A very long time and I know what happened with your drama.

Of course only by what was written.

TWS is entitled to his opinion. The history and lineage of a style are important to him, and there is nothing wrong with that. I personally don't place that much importance on it, but rather on if I like the style, and if it has something to offer me. In my time with SD, it has helped me to achieve the goals I have set out for my self when I first began looking at taking MA. I have lost weight, became stronger, it has challenged me, and I believe has made me a better person. All this without delving into it's history. Again, this is how I am, not trying to insult anyone, but just giving my point of view.

[Citong Shifu]

The more I think about it, the more likely it seems that SD's history may be true, despite what so many think. If someone were going to use Shaolin kung fu as a money making enterprise, but didn't want to spend decades becoming a real Shaolin master, they could do it much easier than the way people seem to believe GM Sin did. Google, photo-shop, and some creative writing that corresponds with established dates and events in accepted TCMA lore, and they would have enough validity to satisfy 90% of the people on this thread, myself included. We may be well read and well practiced, but there is not one true TCMA expert on this thread. All we are doing here is throwing the same conflicting opinions back and forth. It's interesting diversion that will be around as long as someone from both sides keeps typing. GM Sin is passing on the history and material of Shaolin Do as it was passed to him. When he began teaching in America 40 years ago, the history of TCMA was not as readily available or as sought after as it is today. Even if GM Sin had intended to lie from day one, someone of his obvious intelligence could have constructed something more believable than SD's history. GM Sin has no need to lie. Shaolin Do is a Chinese martial art with roots in the Fukien temple that evolved and traveled through Indonesia and America to become what it is today. I have gotten nothing but positive things from my Shaolin Do training. Many others have as well.

What maks you think there's "NO" TCMA expert on this thread? I can honestly tell you this, Shaolin-Do itself (name) is not CMA. Shaolin-Do has many forms/tao lu's that are rooted from the Fujian/Fukien Shaolin Temple, this is true, but if you really research the names or translations of your tao lu you will find out that the forms originated during the period when the Okinawan masters trained at Fujian Temple, thus creating the first forms of karate... When the forms made there way back to Okinawa, they were modified once again into modern day Okinawan karate-do....

Now, I'm not saying Shaolin-Do is Okinawan karate, but the translations of Shaolin-Do bird forms, etc evolved when Fujian Shaolin Kungfu was modified by the karate masters....

Please, dont take my word for it, ask you master The', he should know exactly what I'm talking about.... I'm not interested in a big debate on this issue, I could care less. Anyone can research what I've just spoken about, it's no secret..

Me, I'm just interested in my training/art, but I do get somewhat aggitated when people presume there's no TCMA experts on board here... As you guys in Shaolin-Do, I train very hard 7 days a week, nothing part-time. I take my efforts in the CMA very serious... I choose not to say things on this thread due to the relevance of this thread.... Shaolin-Do is a real martial arts, rather its TCMA, who really cares... Marketing and advertising, so what....

The actual question was "Is Shaolin-Do for real", YES... Anything else is a whole entire seperate coversation....

I hope I didnt offend you guys in Shaolin-Do, I wasn't trying to... Your GM The' should be able to answer your questions on my statements....

CS.
Shifu Ron...

[KungFu Student]

What maks you think there's "NO" TCMA expert on this thread? I can honestly tell you this, Shaolin-Do itself (name) is not CMA. Shaolin-Do has many forms/tao lu's that are rooted from the Fujian/Fukien Shaolin Temple, this is true, but if you really research the names or translations of your tao lu you will find out that the forms originated during the period when the Okinawan masters trained at Fujian Temple, thus creating the first forms of karate... When the forms made there way back to Okinawa, they were modified once again into modern day Okinawan karate-do....

Now, I'm not saying Shaolin-Do is Okinawan karate, but the translations of Shaolin-Do bird forms, etc evolved when Fujian Shaolin Kungfu was modified by the karate masters....

Please, dont take my word for it, ask you master The', he should know exactly what I'm talking about.... I'm not interested in a big debate on this issue, I could care less. Anyone can research what I've just spoken about, it's no secret..

Me, I'm just interested in my training/art, but I do get somewhat aggitated when people presume there's no TCMA experts on board here... As you guys in Shaolin-Do, I train very hard 7 days a week, nothing part-time. I take my efforts in the CMA very serious... I choose not to say things on this thread due to the relevance of this thread.... Shaolin-Do is a real martial arts, rather its TCMA, who really cares... Marketing and advertising, so what....

The actual question was "Is Shaolin-Do for real", YES... Anything else is a whole entire coversation....

I hope I didnt offend you guys with Shaolin-Do, I wasn't trying to... Your GM The' should be able to answer your questions on my statements....

CS.
Shifu Ron...

No offence taken here. I have no doubt that there are many on the board who have extensive knowledge in TCMA. This is what I was trying to get across, SD is a martial art, traditional or not.

[Radhnoti]

GC - "I'm astounded by how much evidence that is unearthed to support the claims about one of the oldest fighting styles to date...In relation to SD the only evidence they have to support their claims is Mythology."

I was under the impression that the original "Pankration" was lost and it's been reconstructed by modern groups.

A martial art...the original form no longer REALLY taught...just various groups and their interpretations. Hey! You're right, it does have something to do with shaolin/shaolin-do.

[BentMonk]

CS - No offense taken. I was also not trying to offend by saying there were no experts on this thread. Your posts have been polite and intelligent. I respect your knowledge. I honestly did not think that anyone who considered themselves a TCMA expert would have the time or inclination to participate in this discussion. Apparently I was mistaken. I was not directing my comment toward any specific person. In your opinion, what qualifies someone as an expert in TCMA? I'm not being sarcastic. I'm just curious.

[The Willow Sword]

quit your crying...do you want some cheese for that whine??

TTM, seems like you need a bigger spoon for the BS you eat everyday




You know TWS, if you kept your emotions out, you make valid points. Then you say the above and lose credibility.

Well we are an emotional species godzillakungfu. I am certainly no robot, nor are the rest of us, and I dont think i have gained or lost any more credability here than the next person,but that is just how i feel about it.

anyway as for KF Student's comments, LIke JP he makes decent comments and even though i disagree with the not caring about the history part, i respect his choice to do what it is he feels he must in order to better himself.
It will be a while before i come back to this thread, My life is about to get very busy and very serious for the next several months and i wont have time to post anything else. Im sure some will be very happy not to have my "input" no matter how IN/ VALID or EMOTIONAL it may be, here in this thread.

But take care all and do what you feel is right in your heart, as i often do, regardless of the consequences.

Take Care All, Peace, TWS

[Citong Shifu]

CS - No offense taken. I was also not trying to offend by saying there were no experts on this thread. Your posts have been polite and intelligent. I respect your knowledge. I honestly did not think that anyone who considered themselves a TCMA expert would have the time or inclination to participate in this discussion. Apparently I was mistaken. I was not directing my comment toward any specific person. In your opinion, what qualifies someone as an expert in TCMA? I'm not being sarcastic. I'm just curious.

Bent Monk, I usually dont participate in this discussion. However, I do follow the debate and from time to time add a comment or two . As far as, what qualifies someone as an expert in TCMA, well, I guess that would depend on each persons definition or belief... I personally believe that such a person would be trained extensively in TCMA; tradition, culture, history, theory, principles, etc. Every aspect of traditional training will be learned and perfected (according to art/style). Standards of TCMA are upheld; flexibility, speed, power, stance, stability, posture, applications, etc regardless of age or disability. I know this seems somewhat harsh, but remember, CMA in the old days were only passed to those who were stong enough to complete their training... Anywho, this subject could be talked or debated for months, so lets stop here... The few examples I listed above pretty much covered the question asked, one would just need to sort out which definition goes with which example . You know, I understand that the CMA have been so commercialized that its really hard to find experts in TCMA, and its true. Money has come before quality. What a shame... Ok, no soap box ranting.. Talk to you guys later...

CS
Shifu Ron..

[Citong Shifu]

I guess this would be a good time to invite all of you to the MidWest Chinese Martial arts Society. It's a MSN group site that talks about all different styles of CMA.. If there's not a board for your particular art, one can be added... The group site is not for arguing are things of that nature, but a place to share and debate... Anywho, if interested, come on by and say hello..

CS.

[BentMonk]

CS - You are truly from the "old school". I thank you for your invitation. I will visit soon.

[Golden Tiger]

So did KC ever get that translation of Sin's certificate yet?

I posted a translation of it MK, don't you trust me?


http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...postcount=3401

[Citong Shifu]

CS - You are truly from the "old school". I thank you for your invitation. I will visit soon.

Bent Monk, Thank you! But, it is I that should commend you on your perseverance and efforts within the martial arts. I just viewed your website, wow! Talk about inspiration... You know, I see martial artist everyday that have nothing holding them back but themselves and laziness, then there's martial artist such as yourself that take full advantage of the benefits that the arts have to offer... Once again, great job!

CS.

[Green Cloud]

Just curious, what does Citon Sifu mean ?? I mean the name not his comments.

[The Xia]

It's a city in China's Fujian province.