View Poll Results: What to do about the 'Is Shaolin-Do for real?' thread

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  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts!

    22 38.60%
  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Let all the S-D threads stand independently.

    13 22.81%
  • Keep IS-Dfr locked down. All IS-Dfr posters deserved to be punished.

    5 8.77%
  • Delete them all. Let Yama sort them out.

    17 29.82%
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Thread: Is Shaolin-Do for real?

  1. #4231
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post
    no you just assumed...

    just because it is pretty does not mean that it is effective as a martialart..get a clue...like I said these people are dancers not martialartist...I have been trained to see the intent as to whether it is for show or for fighting..most of what I see is for show no matter how much they say it is a martial art..

    as far as the uniform just read my proceeding post ..get a clue... of course the uniform does not matter in the grand picture ..but it sure seems to matter to alot of folk here that use it to define what is and what is not kung fu CMA or TCMA....this was my point... I do not need a specific piece of clothing to perform or apply my techniques...or to legitimize my art

    TTM, first of all, its not my place to figure out what your trying to say... That your job... You know as well as I do, especailly on this thread, that you must write what you mean and leave no room for loose translations . There has been too many misunderstandings on this he said/she said thing. Thats why I answer or reply to what has been stated, not what I think the person is trying to say... This is the way of this thread...

    #2 - I didnt say anything about "just being pretty" as to being effective... What are you missing here? Ok, could you explain to me what the appearance of techniques should be in order to judge there efectiveness? or if there real or not. Uniforms, I dont think I need to cover that one again. We dont place a relevance on wear and tear of our uniforms, beside, one of shaolin kungfu's basic training/fighting principles is to always train at the disadvantage point and when not at a disavantage point, exploit it, but you should already know this...

    TTM, I'm not against you or SD. Regardless of how others define the CMA or TCMA. Simply, you train your art and I train my art, which happens to be Fujian Shaolin Temple Kungfu/Boxing.... Anywho, your way too defensive on this subject..

    CS.
    Last edited by Citong Shifu; 10-15-2006 at 10:27 PM.
    The Style Doesn't Make The Master Famous. The Master Makes The Style Famous!

  2. #4232

    Pankration

    Based on the artifacts, it appears to combine Olympic Style Wrestling with Boxing and some kicks. This particular picture is interesting.
    http://historical-pankration.com/arc...archiveid=1125
    It is of Etruscan boxers. They appear to be using an old school "put em up" posture.

  3. #4233
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post
    SD has as much evidence as any other kung fu or martialarts lineage..... because until recently ( 100 to 150 years ago ) none of these arts wrote anything down except some of the material it's self ..it was all passed down by oral tradtions...until recently the art of pankration had been a lost art and was only found through different acient texts and very few people were even doing anything close to it...most likely only greeco roman wrestling
    "SD has much evidence" So then SHOW ME...

    "Until recently ( 100 to 150 years ago) " wich is it 100 or 150 I can understand being a few years off but 50 years that's what I'm talking about your time line is a joke

    "None of these arts wrote anything down" Then how can you even expect to debate that any SD has got any proof that it wasn't made up by the GM of the system

    The so called ancient texts that you speak of have been around for ever and lets not forget the fact that the moves are depicted on just about ever greek vase you see.

    Before you continue to spew nonsense I have to warn you that I am 100% GREEK and I now the history of my ancestory a lot better than you

  4. #4234
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Xia View Post
    Based on the artifacts, it appears to combine Olympic Style Wrestling with Boxing and some kicks. This particular picture is interesting.
    http://historical-pankration.com/arc...archiveid=1125
    It is of Etruscan boxers. They appear to be using an old school "put em up" posture.
    Xia I'd have to say Touche, that's exactly what I was talking about EVIDENCE

  5. #4235

    Ancient History

    Archeology is a great thing. Modern equipment is a key to the past. Some things have been confirmed and some things debunked. New discoveries are made. Things are clarified. The ancient Greeks did have historians. Thucydides is an example of that. For many years, Homer's Iliad was thought to be a complete myth. This is until Heinrich Schliemann actually uncovered the ruins of Troy. He even discovered the Mask of Agamemnon. Fascinating huh?

  6. #4236
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    Wow that is very interesting

  7. #4237
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    I think we should turn this thread into a Pancration thread as much as I like Mythology I love History

  8. #4238

    History

    Some information on Heinrich Schliemann
    Quote Originally Posted by The Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia, 6th ed.
    Schliemann, Heinrich (hīn'rikh shlē'män) [key], 1822–90, German archaeologist, discoverer of the ruins of Troy. He accumulated a fortune in the indigo trade and as a military contractor and retired from business in 1863 to dedicate himself to finding Troy and other Homeric sites. After several years of study and travel, in 1871 he undertook at his own expense excavations at Hissarlik that resulted in the discovery of four superimposed towns. Schliemann's research at Hissarlik represented the archaeological discovery of a Homeric civilization, previously considered by many experts to be legendary. Schliemann related every object he found to the verses of Homer, which he knew by heart. He made other notable excavations at Mycenae (1876–78), Ithaca (1878), Orchomenus, Boeotia (1881–82), and Tiryns (1884–85) and was assisted by Wilhelm Dörpfeld from 1882. His work in Greece demonstrated the existence of the previously unknown civilization of the Greek Bronze Age. Schliemann made two of the most spectacular discoveries in the history of archaeology, finding the “Treasure of Priam” at Hissarlik in 1873 (a trove that included two gold diadems, thousands of pieces of gold jewelry, bronze weapons, and silver and copper vessels) and an even larger treasure of gold, silver, and copper ornaments, masks, and swords at the Shaft Graves at Mycenae in 1876–77. The Treasure of Priam has always been controversial, as Schliemann's accounts of this discovery were inconsistent, and he smuggled the items out of Turkey. Schliemann's work, widely reported by the international press, captured the public imagination and dramatically revealed the great potential of archaeological research. Schliemann wrote several books describing his discoveries and an autobiography (published posthumously in 1892) and left a vast collection of personal papers and records, He acquired American citizenship because he was living in California when it became a state (1850).

    See biographies by E. Ludwig (1931), R. Payne (1958), A. C. Brackman (1974), and D. A. Traill (1995); C. Schuchhardt, Schliemann's Excavations and Archaeological and Historical Studies (1977); S. H. Allen, Finding the Walls of Troy (1999).
    http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0843969.html

    This information doesn't have to do with Pankration but it is about one of the most important archeologists of all time so I say what the hell.
    Last edited by The Xia; 10-15-2006 at 10:59 PM.

  9. #4239
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    That was vey insightful thanks Xia.

  10. #4240
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post
    ..... a gi is useful for continued practice of practical application without having to buy new t shirts or whatever else on a daily basis ..... it is strong, durable ,and can withstand continued punishment other types can not....
    It can also make people sloppy when training throws and grappling because they get used to having something to hold on to...BJJ guys train in GIs, but if you fight one that never trained without it, they are lost. Same for a lot of Judoka.

    I wear underarmor and shorts when I train...never torn one yet.

    But of course you think inside the box and have very narrow views on everything.....
    Pot...kettle...

    BTW, you should really read Brian Kennedy's book on Chinese martial arts manuals. A lot of the hooley balloey you spout as Shaolin history is debunked in that book. Especially your notion of Shaolin being a "university" of martial arts.

  11. #4241
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    GC, I was just commenting on the lack of "real" shaolin. Shaolin was only ONE thing back when there was one place where it was gathered, in my opinion. Reconstruction in pankration from vases and history books wouldn't qualify an art as "real" in the TCMA world...well...at least not on this board. If Sin The' just made up shaolin-do from all the historic evidence and pictures he would catch as much criticism as he does now. I'm not saying pankration didn't exist, I'm saying no one has any proof that modern practicioners are doing the exact same thing in the same way that original pankration students did. That's the price you pay with incomplete historic accounts.

    I have a question. What, exactly, is it that is being disagreed with on this thread now? Most the time SD opponents say things now, and I agree with them.
    "SD doesn't look like [insert style name]." - I agree.
    "SD isn't connected with any current Chinese shaolin monks." - OK, I agree.
    "SD has good and bad examples of students and teachers." - No doubt.
    Has the disagreement come down to just a distaste for marketing practices now? I'm not trying to be confrontational here...I just don't see where there's much disagreement anymore.
    Thanks in advance to anyone who chooses to answer...
    Keep it simple, stupid.

  12. #4242
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    I spoke with GM The' yesterday. You can say whateer you want about the guy, but he moves very well for 64 years old. He's still in great shape.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  13. #4243
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    Did he mention when the movie is supposed to be coming out?

  14. #4244
    Quote Originally Posted by Green Cloud View Post
    ...I have to warn you that I am 100% GREEK and I now the history of my ancestory a lot better than you
    well then you, like me, are avidly awaiting THIS:

    http://300themovie.warnerbros.com/

  15. #4245
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    Quote Originally Posted by JP
    You can say whateer you want about the guy, but he moves very well for 64 years old.
    I noticed that also on Saturday during the Monkey form. He was jumping around a lot easier than I was for sure. But at least I can still move quicker than KC and Baqualin
    "Pain heals, chicks dig scars..Glory lasts forever"......

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