Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[ingchao]

Once again Tattooed Monk, I admire your dedication to your art.
But at this point you are peeing into the wind.
We have not been shown good examples of your art in action( like you said you would show us) and you really lost any hope of gaining any credibility for SD when you said each stlye of Mantis was a substyle within SD. Maybe you have 7 mantis FORMS, But there are more than 7 COMPLETE systems of Preying Mantis (by complete I mean they all have many forms and weapons sets that are unique to each style of Mantis, meaning each system would take a LIFETIME to master).


My apologies if you already addressed the Mantis issue and I missed it.

[Green Cloud]

How do you know it is BullSh!T?? Prove it!!!No matter how crazy the history or lineage may seem the art speaks for it'self. There is no way that one or two people could have collected this material over such a short period of time and put it all together in the format that it is in...plus what would anyone have to gain by lying about it?? It stands to reason that it would have more to lose than gain by lying..it appears that most of you are jealous or are in awe of the fact that one school can claim what it does becuase you never heard of it up until recently you think that it must be BullSh!t..which is stupid and ignorant...all of you and your masters/ sifus knock it without any real research into the subject.You choose to ignore things to save face and pick on the things that have non intrinsic value in the debate or in the art. ...get a clue people do some research outside of your little troll holes and see that there is far more to Shaolin than meets the eye.

When I said people that make Sh!t up as they go along I meant you. What would anyone gain from lying??? Sometimes a lying is perpetuated for so long that there is no turning back. And as far as doing research, ,, what research their is no historical evidence to support any of SD's claims. That's the point I was trying to make with Pancration you big dummy.

[kungfujunky]

there is evidence as i have said before in this thread. but it is at gmt's discretion wether or not those items are shown to the public.

[BentMonk]

KC lives 100 yards from me. What's your excuse?

Oh sure...blame on distance. lol I was hoping to goad you into making a road trip. I hope all is great with the family.

[kwaichang]

Hey BT , Me and JP are both going to be dads in the next 2 months maybe after that we can do a road trip and invite GT and Baqualin also sort of a Gathering if you will. Sound good guys ?? KC

[Judge Pen]

Sure, I'm up for it. Me, KC, BM, GT, BQ and anyone else?

[Baqualin]

I'm in......good luck on getting GT off the couch.

[ninthdrunk]

I know for a fact I'd be a little out of league on this one, but I'd love to get in on some of that action. I'm a bit far away, but hopefully I could coordinate that trip with something else and make it happen. Just let me know when details start coming out.

[Radhnoti]

GC - "I also have a problem with SD's marketing, its misleading. It seems to me that SD people on this thread will say anything t make one believe that this is a real Shaolin system."
Regarding marketing, I agree but I also understand it's often necessary to attract students.
Regarding "real", again, the only link shaolin-do claims (beyond the name, I suppose) is historic.

GC - "If I was an SD person I'd say that SD is an eclectic style that has borrowed techniques from many different fighting styles. Its origins or who ever made it up or should I say created it have a strong Indonesian influence and the moves resemble Silat and karate."
I'd agree to most of that... Are you willing to grant that there's also a Chinese influence? Sin The' is Chinese, his family name in China was Chen. Kwando, broadsword, staff and spear are taught before second black. Several example of Chinese schools doing shaolin-do's exact forms have been referrenced in this thread, and GM Sin has been teaching them since what 1967?68? If you can acknowledge that some of SD is Chinese influenced, and then you look at how long he's been at it...to me the chances of "making it up" or finding so many books about Chinese martial arts in Indonesia just seems pretty slim. Another option might be GM Ie collecting manuscripts of some sort...but now you're moving further back to a time in China when books probably weren't so commonplace. To me, the most LOGICAL thing to assume is that GM Sin received a transmission of information just as he and his brother say, via Chinese teachers in Indonesia.
Shaolin-do is not the only style with historic inaccuracies and exaggerations. It's REALLY common in kuntao circles where moving from China jumbled things up even more...
Thanks for humoring me and answering my post GC, I hope I was able to convey my opinion in my ramblings above.

[Baqualin]

I know for a fact I'd be a little out of league on this one, but I'd love to get in on some of that action. I'm a bit far away, but hopefully I could coordinate that trip with something else and make it happen. Just let me know when details start coming out.

KFJ is far away too and I'm sure he would love to get in on this also....I'm looking after the first of the year...I know KC & JP will be tied up until then (hey guys you know what causes that stuff )

[Golden Tiger]

I'm in......good luck on getting GT off the couch.

The couch is a lot safer place to be. I don't want to have to take the wrath of you youngins....

[tattooedmonk]

Once again Tattooed Monk, I admire your dedication to your art.
But at this point you are peeing into the wind.
We have not been shown good examples of your art in action( like you said you would show us) and you really lost any hope of gaining any credibility for SD when you said each stlye of Mantis was a substyle within SD. Maybe you have 7 mantis FORMS, But there are more than 7 COMPLETE systems of Preying Mantis (by complete I mean they all have many forms and weapons sets that are unique to each style of Mantis, meaning each system would take a LIFETIME to master).


My apologies if you already addressed the Mantis issue and I missed it.

I know that there are at least the 4 original complete styles of mantis within the art.....all the others are off shoots...I am not aware of there being any southern mantis because it is a more recent developement.I doubt it is in the curriculum. I am aware of the fact that that it would take life times to master all of them . one of the greatest misconceptions is that Master Sin is a master of all of these styles . He is the grandmaster of the system and holder of the collective teachings .He has learned and teaches them but his area of mastery is in other styles . This was the job of the grandmaster within the temple network.It is his job in Shaolin Do. The grandmasters did not master all the styles nor did they need to because there were masters for each specific styles within the temple network.

[MasterKiller]

This was the job of the grandmaster within the temple network.It is his job in Shaolin Do. The grandmasters did not master all the styles nor did they need to because there were masters for each specific styles within the temple network.

What is your source for this information?

[Judge Pen]

The couch is a lot safer place to be. I don't want to have to take the wrath of you youngins....

You could be in charge of cooridnating the beverage intake afterwards.

[tattooedmonk]

When I said people that make Sh!t up as they go along I meant you. What would anyone gain from lying??? Sometimes a lying is perpetuated for so long that there is no turning back. And as far as doing research, ,, what research their is no historical evidence to support any of SD's claims. That's the point I was trying to make with Pancration you big dummy.

So now I am making Sh!t up HAHAHAH whatever...

there is just as much information to support SD claims as any other style out there . maybe not the intimate details but definately the history of Shaolin and the developement of the temple network the styles ,teachings and the forms...get a clue...most of the history and lineage in all these other styles was not revealed unless you were a private student / disciple and was not something that was bragged about until recently...all this stuff was passed down by oral tradition.

In this day of the information age the internet has made it possible to connect all these points within the web and pass on information at a higher rate of speed and at a higher rate of error. the internet perpetuates many forms of misinformation and is constantly used by people to lend credability to what they do. this includes everyone.

just because it is believed by many does not make it true..you know that this applies to your arts as well as ours... get a clue...you will find that your styles have less credibility than ours

like I said it would take more than 2 people( Ie chang ming and sin kwang the) to make this stuff up and would take many lifetimes to do that amount of research and training. you see this is what many people within Shaolin Do understand is that through reasoning and logic we understand that it would be impossible for them to do so in such a short period of time and that there is more evidence within Shaolin Do to support the claims than there are not.Plus most of the people do not care about the superficial BULLSH!T that you all seem to worry about

How could someone have this amount of extensive knowledge in such a short period of time and make all the other **** up as they go along??? Basically you would be saying that for over 150 years su kong, ie chang ming ,and sin the have made all of this stuff up and developed a marketing sceme just to make money...I believe there are easier ways to do this and why would anyone waste their time doing such a thing???it does not make sense

..it is obvious that you are jealous and in awe of the collective teachings of Shaolin Do and cannot get past your preconceived ideas of what is and what is not to really explore the history of shaolin ,kung Fu, and SD. when you do ( if you do ) you will find that there is a whole world of knowledge that you and these other people are missing out on