Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[fungku]

I am sorry, but the man in those clips has VERY LITTLE skill at all, he is sloppy, not controlled, ... just plain awful?
This is not 'Shaolin' AT ALL.

OK, THE RULE ON NOT PUTTING DOWN ANOTHER STYLE.
I am not insulting this STYLE OF KUNG FU, I am SAYING THIS IS NOT KUNG FU. It may be a martial art, but it is NOT shaolin kung fu, nor does it look related to shaolin kung fu. It looks like a japanese martial art, with Chinese weapons, or 'imitated' Chinese movements.

I have studied Hung Gar kung fu for many years, and have started studyin Wing Chun kung fu. I have also two really close friends who both came from China (exchange students), and we practiced kung fu together, I have learned 2 northern shaolin forms from them. They seem authentic, though there is no way to be sure, but the exchange of kung fu was fun.

Anyway, like I was saying the whole SHaolin-Do thing...

It is NOT and I will repeat NOT kung fu.
(and if the guy in the clip is a seniour student of this Sin The guy, then it does not say a lot about Sin The)

[BeiKongHui]

Don't make him beat you with his chest muscles!
He is the worlds most dangerous man anyway.

Dangerous Man :D

"Gong Sao Mo Gong Ching Sao"
- When you talk with the hands,
best not to speak of polite hands.

[SanHeChuan]

you guys couldn't agree on the color of sh!t ;)

some of you say it's kung fu form videos
some of you say it's modern communist wushu
some of you say it's not even kung fu at all
some of you say it looks like karate (where you get that i don't know)
some of are just plain ignorante
some of the people who have been in shaolin-do seem to have been impressed with the martial side.

(there have been other shaolin-do posts by the way
)
so what the fuc!

With so many conflicting opinions i say screw them all and find out for youself, mabe it's not kung fu but that doesn't mean it cant be a good martial art. Mabe it is kung fu and these fuc sticks dont know what there talking about.
looking into the shaolin-do school if you like it best go there and if a more reputable kung fu school becomes avalible to you then try it out too and then after you have gained upper rank in both you can tell us what YOU think.
but tell us about the techniques and skills not about the kinda uniforms they where or wheather they say kata or form because that sh!t dont mean Sh!t

but you will only get out of your training what you put into it :eek:

"Civilize the mind but make savage the body"

[BeiKongHui]

uhhhhhhm, the main problem I see is that I've met people who've been black belts (or sashes whatever it is this week)for 10-15 years and couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. I've also been told by people that trained at the main headquarters that the GM sells belts to those who can't actually pass their tests.

"Gong Sao Mo Gong Ching Sao"
- When you talk with the hands,
best not to speak of polite hands.

[Radhnoti]

Well, I can discount the "selling belts" idea, I know a guy that failed at LEAST one attempt to pass into brown from my hometown and have heard of several others from other schools.
And as for not being able to fight...well, maybe you're just SO unstoppable that anyone ELSE put next to you looks pathetic? ;)

-Radhnoti

[Inquisitor]

You say that: "some of you say it's kung fu form videos some of you say it's modern communist wushu some of you say it's not even kung fu at all some of you say it looks like karate (where you get that i don't know)"


Could it not be *all of them*? I don't see why the fact that he teaches "modern communist wushu" somehow excludes him from also teaching "kung fu form [sic] videos." They aren't mutually exclusive. The problem isn't that what he teaches is not combat effective (although I believe so), the problem is that he claims to teach "Shaolin kungfu" when in fact he doesn't. Half of what he teaches is not from Shaolin, and none of it looks *real*. Why is it that even though a Choy Li Fut master and a Northern Shaolin master learn completely different styles, they can look at each other and say "He knows good kungfu" ? Because they both still do *kungfu* which, even across styles, shares several very basic similarities in both combat principle and technique (yes, that was an oversimplification). They may do things differently and study in a different manner, but they recognize martial mastery when they see it.

And then you have to gall to say "go do both and *then* compare." Well, I hate to break it to you, but time and money are limited resources. I am not about to waste my time or my heard-earned money (*gasp* money from a JOB *gasp*) learning some bull**** martial art from a bull**** "grandmaster" who, as far I know, couldn't punch if his life depended on it. I would not want others to do the same. This is the martial arts. I have seen, in person, and sparred with, several high-ranking Shaolin-Do students, including a "1st Dan" Blackbelt (I met them through a mutual friend). From my own *personal* experience, I can say that the Shaolin-Do that I have seen isn't kungfu. The "1st Dan" couldn't even tell me what a basic concept such as fa jing was. It was one of the *lower ranking* students who had "heard of it," and even then he couldn't explain to me what it was. Keep in mind that it is supposed to take "several years" for someone to reach the rank of "1st Dan," which in the system of Shaolin-Do is supposed to denote some form of mastery of at least the basics, if not the "advanced" knowledge. In fact, from what I have seen, Shaolin-Do doesn't even qualify as a martial art. Go watch a class. See how the instructor or a high-ranked student does the forms. For anyone that has had several years of study in the traditional Chinese Martial Arts, what they see is complete and utter bull****. The Seven Star Praying Mantis and Eight Step Praying Mantis branches both do the same basic forms, but do them differently. Do they say "oh, that branch doesn't know *real* Praying Mantis"? No. They say "oh, they do them *differently*, but it's still the same thing." When they see a Shaolin-Do master doing a Praying Mantis form, they cringe. Why is that?
Unfortunately, we live in a different time. In the past, one could have simply walked up to the nearest Shaolin-Do "dojo" and challenged the instructor/master of the school. Now, such a thing would be pretty much impossible (you think any Shaolin-Do "master" would agree to such a fight in the first place? Good luck, heh).

Look, I realize that you weren't really picking sides, so I apologize for reaming you. It just really, really gets to me when I hear about crap like this. You make statements like "find out for yourself" when the proof is lying there, right in front of you. Why ask someone to waste their time and money doing something that is fake just so they can learn that IT IS FAKE? It gives the real martial arts (not just the Chinese Martial Arts, but all of them) a bad name. And, for the record, I believe that in this thread Vankuen professed to learning Shaolin-Do before, as did several others in previous "Shaolin-Do" threads.
Anyway, that is my angry little spiel on the subject of Shaolin-Do. =P

[Brad]

I have a feeling Shaolin-Do has stolen forms from a lot of different styles including standardized wushu. 24 Taiji?! Defenitely not Shaolin in any way. It was created in the 50's! A lot of us say it looks karate(if it does, it's the most god awful karate I've ever seen) because we probably don't know a whole lot about karate. We're kunfu guys.

[Abstract]

if you're gonna call people "ignorant" then spell it without the 'e'... ;) ;)

[Radhnoti]

First I studied aikido. I couldn't mesh with the totally nonaggressive philosophy, and HATED standing with my arms to my side inviting attack. I left. Next I studied with a guy teaching multiple japanese arts, one of which he was recognized as a Shihan (sp?) by a nationwide organization. He taught small-circle jujitsu, judo (not his strong suit), and shorin ryu karate. He had plans to integrate them into his own "eclectic" martial art. I stayed there for a year or more before figuring out it really wasn't for me. He felt there was no need to observe too many of the "useless traditions" his sensei had forced upon him. He still taught kata, but he felt sparring and tournament competition was more important.
Now, I'm in Shaolin-Do. I'm working harder than I had to in any martial art I ever studied before (there are some more that I studied back in college, but I'll skip the boring story about each of them). We're taught conditioning techniques. (Ever do push-ups on your wrists? Forearm toughening drills? Finger tip pushups? We do.) We study kata and our teacher goes into great detail about the possible applications of each movement within the kata, stressing that techniques can and must be modified slightly in real life situations. We observe all courtesies, extending them even to visitors from other styles. Now, onto (I believe, but forgive me if I misrepresent you) Inquisitor's primary problems with Shaolin-Do. Grandmaster Sin claims to be the sole and direct inheritor of grandmaster status from the Shaolin temple. I have no way to verify OR deny this, neither does anyone else. His supporters would say, "Look at all he knows and teaches! Anyone who says he isn't is just jealous." His detractors would say, "Isn't it convenient that nothing and no one exists to dispute or prove your claim." This seems to me to be a pointless arguement for BOTH sides. Personally, I could care less whether his system is the "pure" one handed down from "The Temple". It has within it all the elements that I require. I DO believe him, but it's based solely upon my interactions with him and some of his higher ranked students, no hard facts. The other problem folks seem to have regarding Shaolin-Do runs along the lines of, "That ain't Kung-Fu man!" I would, respectfully, point out that kung-fu is different things to different folks. It's ridiculous for someone from a specific style to say, "That style is wrong, because it's not like mine." In addition, Grandmaster Sin's book goes into great detail about why Shaolin-Do isn't kung-fu... A Cantonese term which refers to the effort a person makes when he devotes himself to some task. They seem to prefer the Mandarin phrases Shaolin Ch'uan-fa (Ch'uan-fa meaning, "the way of the fist") or Shaolin Wu kung (wu kung being an expression that denotes any and all types of martial endeavor performed in a skillful and dedicated manner). But, instead of fretting about what category Shaolin-Do is placed within, it was decided that "generic" terms were unimportant. Shaolin-Do has since been referred to as both Kung-Fu and even karate with no protestation from any of the high ranking students or Grandmaster. So, maybe that'll make you feel better...you're right, it ain't kung-fu! ;)
In closing, (finally, eh? :rolleyes: ) I'd like to apologize for having to be the one to present the "other side" of this argument. I'm sure that someone with more experience in the system would do a better job...maybe they're just tired of this circular argument and have let it go. Or maybe they're practicing their forms the way we all should be. heh

-Radhnoti

[SanHeChuan]

ok, but if they got it from videos wouldn't you still be able to reconize the forms as at least bad kung-fu.

so i was saying that people saying that it isn't even kung-fu, and people that are saying thats it's video kungfu are contradicting each other.

i don't think that he should wast his time with crap either but i believe in using personal experiance rather than what some internet jocky says to form your own opions :D

whether fooled or not alot of people seem to like shaolin-do and some of them come from other martial arts including kung-fu styles,so maybe doing "internet research" isn't going to give you the real story.

i'm not trying to defend shaolin-do, i'm just saying personal experience is best, or something.
i think i've confused myself :D j/k

"Civilize the mind but make savage the body"

[BeiKongHui]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Well, I can discount the "selling belts" idea, I know a guy that failed at LEAST one attempt to pass into brown from my hometown and have heard of several others from other schools.
And as for not being able to fight...well, maybe you're just SO unstoppable that anyone ELSE put next to you looks pathetic? [/quote]

Yeah, everyone who "studies" shaolin-No's teacher is "different". No, I'm no tougher than anyone else I just study legitimate martial arts-Wing Chun & BJJ-in which actual fighting basics are taught as opposed to getting a belt for memorizing a "kata". Sorry, buddy, I've seen Sin The' & the boys here at the Sin The' gym (this is where this travesty all got started)I wasn't impressed nor where any of my Sihings who pounded many SD people into the ground back in the 70's & 80's when The' tried (unsuccessfully) to send his black belts around to other schools to start fights.
I'm no Kung Fu expert but I & most everyone else here know more than you...save you time & money and move on to a legit art.

"Gong Sao Mo Gong Ching Sao"
- When you talk with the hands,
best not to speak of polite hands.

[BeiKongHui]

Just for your piece of mind I have seen it all first hand not through the internet. If I wanted to subject myself to it again I could walk out my door and walk about 1/8th of a mile to the nearest Shaolin-Do McDojo.

"Gong Sao Mo Gong Ching Sao"
- When you talk with the hands,
best not to speak of polite hands.

[Radhnoti]

BeiKongHui, thanks for your "expert" opinion. I, too, live in KY and I agree to disagree with you. And just so no one thinks my comment that you quoted was rude, I'll point out that the "you're so awesome" comment WAS followed by a smiley face...in this case I meant it as humor, not mockery.

-Radhnoti

[ope]

Push ups on your fingers we do this as well push ups on your wrist (crane push ups) all these things should be basic training i would hope most schools train using these methods..

[BeiKongHui]

Where are you in Kentucky? There are plenty of more legitimate Kung Fu schools in this state. If your going to invest the blood, tears & $$$ into training you should seek out a style worthy of your dedication. At the very least I would urge you to do some heave research into the "katas" you are being taught and seek out the advice of more experienced non shaolin-no martial artists who will tell you how it is. Sorry, man I just see too many people who've been through the Shaolin-No system & come out totally disillusioned with the entire world of martial arts because they saw the truth too late.

"Gong Sao Mo Gong Ching Sao"
- When you talk with the hands,
best not to speak of polite hands.