Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[godzillakungfu]

BTW congrats on all the newborns better you than me.

[Zen Archer]

Nice to see you guys are still at it!

Just sat on a test panel to grade brown belts testing for advancement today, and it puts a little perspective in things for me.

First of all I would like to address an issue regarding internet personnas and manners toward each other. In all fairness to everyone non-SD or SD this is scientific fact (check it out if you have doubts). It's been proven in studies that 50% of communication is body language, 40% tone of voice, and only 10% based on the actual words we say. Therefore, in these internet posts 90% of what anyone is saying is lost through the fact that it is an internet post. I was described as "pompous" based on a post I made and anyone who talks to me in person or knows me would know I'm anything but. Confident & self-assured yes, but also humble.

Yes, it is true that a lot of people have fake internet personnas, like on myspace and such. However, it is evident by the passion shown in many posts here that for the most part people here are real, or attempting to represent themselves as such.

As far as myself, one of my top goals as a SD, CSKF, or Shaolin (whichever you prefer) practitioner is the Taoist or Buddhist goal of destroying the ego (my own). I'm as real as it gets, and I try to be humble. I don't consider GMT or Ie Chang Ming gods, but I respect them.

I can be found at the Chinese Shao-lin center in Denver, CO any time we have classes, for anyone wanting to see how real I am. While many videos seen may not represent TCMA as it were, that doesn't mean people are not working toward that goal. The actual spirit, flair, technique is taught, at least in our school. Yet I say again, in the West, most do not practice the basics. Many people struggle just to put enough time in just to remember the material, let alone practice it properly. A 1st, 2nd, 3rd year student in the West will look nothing like those in the Temples of old in 99% of cases.

Case in point the difference between 2 Shantung Whirling Palms forms. We discussed in class the difference between the two with Master David Soard recently. They are are both Shantung Whirling Palms System but one is descended from Northern fist, one is Southern fist in origin. One is supposed to be very smooth & fluid, while the other is choppy and powerful in spirit. If you watch most in our classes perform these you coudn't tell the difference in spirit and technique.

This is an oversimplification, but it illustrates my point. The instruction is given, but not many apply it. I think you would find this to be true in most TCMA schools.

All you Lexington SD'ers, you sound like great people. I am going to make a point of visiting the Lexington school soon, I would like to talk in person and practice with some of you.

As far as practicing TCMA, I would like to see some of you "TCMA" practitioners show video of traditional stance work, SD or non-SD. It may not be impressive to most, but it is as "traditional" as it gets! I haven't the ability to video myself, nor the desire to, but maybe I will do so one day just because it is so important to everyone else on here. I'm in Shaolin for one goal above all others that I mention, and that is for what I can give to other people.

[Baqualin]

[B]Zen Archer
Any student of GMS is welcome in the Lex. Gym anytime!!
We would love to work out and share ideas with you or anybody else who stops by. Let me know if you ever make it this way.
BQ

[tattooedmonk]

...if Shaolin Do is not real how is it that it has survived so long without any REAL TCMA masters coming along and debunking it and/or doing whatever they can to discredit it??

[godzillakungfu]

...if Shaolin Do is not real how is it that it has survived so long without any REAL TCMA masters coming along and debunking it and/or doing whatever they can to discredit it??

OMG here come the annecdotal stories.

Why......Why......must you punish us TTM.

[Shaolin Wookie]

.......Do you think that the word classical would fit better in defining the distinction between SD and other CMA??

Keep in mind that even the classical, traditional ways of doing CMA and all it's outward appearences have changed over the years and to say that one way is right or the real way to represent the CMA is just lame.

Everything in life goes through changes, adapts, or withers away and dies. For TCMA ( more specifically Shaolin)to florish it needs to adapt and be modified to be able to carry on into the next generations.

Hey guys, quick FYI...long-time reader, first time poster. Tattooedmonk...you remind me of Sagacious Lu, and this is definitely a compliment. You caught some flack awhile back for being a tad abrasive in your replies. I'd just like to say that moments like these (above quote) make bearing with your tantrums worthwhile.

And if you don't know who Sagacious Lu is, he's the Phony Monk from the classic Chinese novel The Water Margin. He accidentally killed a local bully in a fistfight and was forced to flee into a monastery for protection from the law. He shaved his head and agreed to live by the abbot's rules. Only, monastic life didn't agree with him. He got into fights, snuck out of the monastery, drank to excess, ate the occasional leg of dog meat or two, and came back completely soused, only to beat up the guardian monks at the gate. In the morning he'd **** behind the temple, and throw up in the meditation halls. The abbot would admonish him, and he'd apologize, promising not to do it again. But he kept on misbehaving. The monks complained that he was a drunkard and a nuisance, but the abbot (because he was obliged to since a good friend had referred Lu to him) replied that Sagacious Lu had great things in the future for him, and would attain far greater enlightenment than any of the other monks. Well, to make a long story short...he never did. He just kept causing trouble. Nevertheless, he's usually everyone's favorite character in the novel, mostly because for all the bad things he does, he beats the living crap out of the occasional troll and makes him run for cover. Anyways, just speaking up on your behalf and lettin' ya know there's room in Shaolin for bullies, too.

Can't change who we are. (I'm a bully too, only, I do it with jokes...)

Peace from ATL CSC.

[tattooedmonk]

Hey guys, quick FYI...long-time reader, first time poster. Tattooedmonk...you remind me of Sagacious Lu, and this is definitely a compliment. You caught some flack awhile back for being a tad abrasive in your replies. I'd just like to say that moments like these (above quote) make bearing with your tantrums worthwhile.

And if you don't know who Sagacious Lu is, he's the Phony Monk from the classic Chinese novel The Water Margin. He accidentally killed a local bully in a fistfight and was forced to flee into a monastery for protection from the law. He shaved his head and agreed to live by the abbot's rules. Only, monastic life didn't agree with him. He got into fights, snuck out of the monastery, drank to excess, ate the occasional leg of dog meat or two, and came back completely soused, only to beat up the guardian monks at the gate. In the morning he'd **** behind the temple, and throw up in the meditation halls. The abbot would admonish him, and he'd apologize, promising not to do it again. But he kept on misbehaving. The monks complained that he was a drunkard and a nuisance, but the abbot (because he was obliged to since a good friend had referred Lu to him) replied that Sagacious Lu had great things in the future for him, and would attain far greater enlightenment than any of the other monks. Well, to make a long story short...he never did. He just kept causing trouble. Nevertheless, he's usually everyone's favorite character in the novel, mostly because for all the bad things he does, he beats the living crap out of the occasional troll and makes him run for cover. Anyways, just speaking up on your behalf and lettin' ya know there's room in Shaolin for bullies, too.

Can't change who we are. (I'm a bully too, only, I do it with jokes...)

Peace from ATL CSC.

I take the first part as a compliment .

I never thought of myself as a bully though.

It is hard to say as to whether Sagacious Lu Da achieved enlightenment or not...... I guess it is all a matter of perspective. Did you ever think that this is why he did the things that he did??

Anyway ......I always thought of myself as a warrior of truth and justice rather than a bully.

And quite frankly never gave a F_U_C_K about what others thought ...unless it was positive.

[tattooedmonk]

OMG here come the annecdotal stories.

Why......Why......must you punish us TTM.

Well you know me...sort of...HAHAHAHAHAHA

[MasterKiller]

I nominate Shaolin Wookie for the best SD screen name.

[Baqualin]

I second that nomination
BQ

[Lokhopkuen]

Actually, If you approached me, with the manner as your first post, I would talk to you just as flip. That is me. I'm known for being abbrasive. I could careless about your rank or your accolades once you get on your high horse.

Internet has nothing to do with my posting. Like I said anonymous is being thrown around as an excuse. When someone doesn't treat you with the respect you want, not the respect you earned you flipped out.

I didn't disrespect you this is all I said

I made a simple comment and answered your question. You chose to try and ram your opinion down my throat.

Remember all I did was say "by your definition." As you can see there are many different definitions according to SDers. You chose to write a huge rant about what YOU FELT was real TCMA.

If I felt your energy if I knew your connections it wouldn't change anything. Respect is earned in my life not freely given.

I still do not like your tone here man and speaking all of this shizzle you remain ANONYMOUS.

You refer to my words as RANT, describing my stance in my posts as HIGH HORSE, say you'd speak to me "just as flip" in person {I really doubt it}, RAMMING WORDS DOWN YOUR THROAT? { ah I wish}, prefacing your responses to me with *yawn*, telling me I have posted nothing new of note?

All of this reeks of disrespect and I have yet to respond with a hardy forkyou.

I do not need to rely on connections nor did I ever suggest it as I would. i simply mention I am know and as kind of a black sheep really....

No doubt I get a little passionate about my opinions as I am about my practice.
Not once have I discounted anyone's words here, not once have I treated anyone contemptuously.

In the Old West men treated one another with deference/ respect as everyone carried a side arm. One careless word and a fellow might end with a bit of lead in the skull. Here we are all martial artists and I see a certain parallel. I assume everyone of you is a fighter and demands respect. I assume that if one of you gets chatty in a nasty way you would be prepared to back it up in a contest of skill? I am no bully nor would I ever actively engage someone below my own level of skill, but I was taught never to write a check with my mouth that my a s s could not cash.

Please keep the above in mind as you communicate in these online martial art forums. I have seen people talk major trash and then forget themselves and end up in real life in the same place with someone they had offended.

It was not pretty. Most here I realize are vicious typers and little more.

.......what is your definition of traditional??

Please use words, not videos, to define this for us please.

It may not follow the mainstream traditions that are mostly associated with CMA but it does have it's own traditions.

I do not dispute SD has it's own tradition and I have great respect.

My definition of Traditional Chinese Martial Art is a group of practitioners with trace-able, unbroken lines of connection back to warrior progenitors who were known for their Martial exploits with no major contemporary modifications. In these groups the content is well thought out with emphasis on the four skills of combat (Punching, Kicking, grappling and wrestling.) as well as the related weapons and weapons practice essences. Each of the traditional weapons teaches a unique series of hidden skills. In these systems the movements are based on the deep introspections of peoples who relied on these skills for survival.

In our line the great master was the head of a security service that specialized in protecting cargo caravans in bandit plagued areas.

In the old days men who practiced applied technique that work efficiently came home to tell the tale while those who did not STAYED ON THE BATTLEFIELD.

The problem nowadays is any strip mall black belt can hang a shingle and never have his ideas tested. As these ever modified principles remain untested they ever slide far and away from the tried and true.

In traditional schools the essence of the founding master's lessons is contained in the cultivation/ practice forms. The handing down of the visual, oral, and felt/ physically transmitted essences is rigidly stratified and passed on with as little mutative variations as possible. The main problem in Traditional Chinese martial art is the people who end up teaching to the widest audience are usually the least qualified to do so. Masters with true RARE skills do not seek notoriety whist enthusiastic neophytes run about spreading their mis-learned and misunderstood skill sets.

Now tell me that was a rant Mr. *YAWN*

Anyway here are a few vids of some of my martial silliness. I posted this stuff for fun for my family and students as a record of my body of practice. Included are a couple of fights before I learned how to fight (I am the tall skinny guy with bad posture), some application demos, maybe a form. I am neither proud or ashamed, I just do it everyday ha ha ha!

Peace

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...oid=1524835917

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...oid=1526974016

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...oid=1461520806

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...oid=1524877841

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...eoid=637902278

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...eoid=719454311

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...oid=1422602124

[Shaolin Wookie]

I nominate Shaolin Wookie for the best SD screen name.

I second that nomination

I am that nomination.


It was either this or Teen Wolf. Bigfoot was already taken.

(No disrespect to GGM SKTJ, though...you just gotta have a sense of humor about this stuff....)

[The Xia]

Your KFM persona is hilarious. I especially like the "Master of da Hydrospanner" title.

[godzillakungfu]

I still do not like your tone here man and speaking all of this shizzle you remain ANONYMOUS.

You refer to my words as RANT, describing my stance in my posts as HIGH HORSE, say you'd speak to me "just as flip" in person {I really doubt it}, RAMMING WORDS DOWN YOUR THROAT? { ah I wish}, prefacing your responses to me with *yawn*, telling me I have posted nothing new of note?

All of this reeks of disrespect and I have yet to respond with a hardy forkyou.

I do not need to rely on connections nor did I ever suggest it as I would. i simply mention I am know and as kind of a black sheep really....

No doubt I get a little passionate about my opinions as I am about my practice.
Not once have I discounted anyone's words here, not once have I treated anyone contemptuously.

In the Old West men treated one another with deference/ respect as everyone carried a side arm. One careless word and a fellow might end with a bit of lead in the skull. Here we are all martial artists and I see a certain parallel. I assume everyone of you is a fighter and demands respect. I assume that if one of you gets chatty in a nasty way you would be prepared to back it up in a contest of skill? I am no bully nor would I ever actively engage someone below my own level of skill, but I was taught never to write a check with my mouth that my a s s could not cash.

Please keep the above in mind as you communicate in these online martial art forums. I have seen people talk major trash and then forget themselves and end up in real life in the same place with someone they had offended.

It was not pretty. Most here I realize are vicious typers and little more.

Wow, that horse must be really tall.


Here one more time before I put you on ignore.
Your post

Originally Posted by Lokhopkuen View Post
Are you guys the same style as these guys?

http://www.shao-lin.com/category.cfm?CategoryID=28

If so it is not TCMA......

My quote:

Yes.

We know it isn't technically TCMA by your definition. Old debate. Read the thread.

Now using short and to the point sentences is quite okay for you. I use the same exact posting method and look here:

I have been reading it.

As far as MY DEFINITION you are right it is not.

I am only chiming in because your thread "Is Shaolin-Do for real?" has dominated the top slot of a TRADITION CHINESE MARTIAL ART forum for weeks and it is related to HENAN SHAOLIN in no form other than it shares part of it's name.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnpaW5hXWDg

NOT TRADITIONAL CHINESE MARTIAL ART {You guys should find him and punish him..} BAD. Not TCMA. Not MARTIAL ART. No manifest energy, no connection, no substance, no historical connection in it's essence to TCMA. Wake up. Serious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6VnLPJI5qg

NOT TRADITIONAL CHINESE MARTIAL ART

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m203c8l6B7w

NOT TRADITIONAL CHINESE MARTIAL ART {BUT PROBABLY THE BEST (easiest to watch) FORM I HAVE SEEN FROM YOUR STYLE..}

Just to be fair and I am not really any good but I do practice each day:
http://www.harmoniousfist.com/videos/kwandao.mov
It's an old vid of one of my casual personal cultivation sessions and a TCMA practice set.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMuUwCd7sfo
This is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdLr_Ks_Gc8
This is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ank1N98rkqc
This is ALL A BIT WUSHUY WAY DIFFERENT FROM SHAOLIN DO...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpwE_PZw5x0
THIS IS TRADITIONAL AND THE ESSENCE IS EASY TO SEE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8S_78v5O-o

THIS IS TRADITIONAL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drz-CMespEM
THIS IS TRADITIONAL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBXal1GAA4A
THIS IS SILLY BUT MORE ENTERTAINING THAN YOUR KWANDAO FORM
HA HA HA!

PEACE


PS No doubt that many of you are serious dedicated practitioners and formidable fighters I salute you as brothers in the martial art. However just because somewhere in your history someone snatched the SHAOLIN moniker and tacked on a Japanese/ Korean suffix does not make it Traditional Chinese Martial Art. Most traditional Chinese Masters have something described as less than affection for the Japanese.

Lets not fight or Fork it, lets fight over it as that is what internet forumishnessnish is all about.

Come on, make me a believer!

But IF NOT!!!

Please stop 'cause shaolin-do at least from my perspective as a 30 plus year {non elitist fun and friendly} TCMA Practitioner,

is not repeat i[i]s not TCMA [/I

D*A*M*N* IF I SAY IT BOLD ENOUGH< ENOUGH TIMES THE FORCE OF MY WILL MAKES IT SO!! HA HA AH!! (THAT IS A JOKE, HUMOR)

]Just because a lizard claims ancestry to a Brontosaurus dose not make it a dinosaur.

The END

Now after all of this here is my

*Yawn*

Obviously, you don't know where I stand otherwise, you wouldn't have posted this J/k rant.

If you really read the entire thread you'd know, as I do, you are rehashing old definitions.

This isn't my thread it was a troll job by the OP. You know, one post never reappear.

I say "your definition" becuase, if you really read the thread it is one of many arguments by the Sders.

The yawn was in response to the "fork lets fight" smart alec comment. Yet, I do explain in a respectful manner my position.

Then you start ranting about how I should respect you, I'm anonymous, too much posting, and I wouldn't talk to you this way in person.

Get your facts straight.

[kwaichang]

To all today is David Carradines birthday 12-8 36. Though some may not like him , his character Kwai Chang Caine , I feel he and the show Kung fu did alot for the growth of Chinese Martial arts. KC